Chinese caught redhanded botching quality

John Turner said the following on 16/08/2007 09:50:
See, you're spoiling a good story with facts!!! The media would much rather ignore these inconvenient details :-)
(And as a UK manufacturer, I have no reason to support Chinese manufacturing, but wouldn't want to see them slagged off for the wrong reasons either.)
Reply to
Paul Boyd
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It's called Capitalism.
I used to work for a major UK communications hardware company, analysing manufacturing test failures. I figgered out what was the one common cause of a *lot* of failures, so wrote a proposal for manglement on how to fix it. It was rejected. Not because I was wrong, but because it would have cost a small amount of money now to save a large amount of money in the future.
Unfortunately, having share-holders seems to normally mean pursuit of short-term goals (cut costs! release a new product!) instead of long- term ones like ensuring product quality and encouraging the customer to come back and buy more stuff in a few years time.
Reply to
David Cantrell
involved.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_arti...>
And no doubt this
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had nothing to do with Chinese and it was all Asda's fault. Has the fault with the lead paint been totally attributed to Mattel, not what the BBC were saying as the work was subcontracted to a subcontractor who did not use the correct paint, or was that misreported.
The issue that high lead paint was once used in this country is a red herring. We used to put children up chimneys but now we don't. Doesn't mean we can comment on China's sweat shops, or any other country's come to that. If the EU has a zero lead content but Mattel specify a low lead content then they are clearly at fault but you said that they may have only been shipped here in error.
The Chinese are not some benign organisation with the west's interests at heart and the sooner the businesses in the west realise that the better. ok for now we get very cheap products but even that is beginning to crack as the Chinese themselves start to become consumers and material shortages are starting to happen.
A few years ago it cost quite a bit to get a scrap yard to collect a car, now they do it for free and will even pay you if you take the car to them. I guess the cost of steel has driven this.
Kevin
Reply to
Kevin
Surely not the issue. Yes if you specify a particular shade of red in non toxic paint then you might get it if the manufacturer doesn't subcontract it to back street cowboy painter. The issue is about how do we audit the process and I have little faith that we can carry out anything like an adequate audit. Which is not a problem in the UK.
Kevin
Reply to
Kevin
If you think it's a problem in the UK think yourself lucky that companies only have to report annually. In the US it's quarterly and things are even shorter term.
Reply to
Christopher A.Lee
"Kevin" wrote
And since when has the UK had commercial companies which were whiter than white?
I used to work in the insurance industry many years ago, and at the time one of the companies I worked for had an extremely good reputation, but since then it has demutualised and merged with others, it has become a market led organisation which will do anything to avoid paying a claim.
John.
Reply to
John Turner
involved.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_arti...> >
In the days when we sent children up chimneys, the life expectancy in the Black Country was 15 for males, 17 for women. Of course those numbers are dragged down by the fact that child mortality (0-5) was around 50%.
Reply to
Greg Procter
I have no knowledge of this case but the news article doesn't say that it was due to an error on the part of the manufacturer, so it could be either Asda's specification or the manufacturer. I wouldn't like to use this as evidence of lax Chinese quality control until we know the truth. There are many problems caused by manufacture in China but using 'evidence' if it is not true in a particular case will be counterproductive to the efforts of those trying to get things changed. I think the worst decision by the West was the USA for political reasons making China their preferred trading partner with all the tax breaks loans etc to US companies moving their manufacturing to China.
If we are talking about the batch of 49000 toys sent to the UK with lead in the paint, I am sure thay have reported the information that they had available, but what I have been told is that it is cost effective for multinational companies selling millions of items of a particular product worldwide to vary the specification to comply with the regulations in particular regions. (For items which are sold in smaller numbers then it is not worth varying the specification and all will meet the highest regulation standards) It is more expensive to comply with EU and North American regulations than those of S.America and most of Africa and Asia. In this case I am told that paint used on this batch was only a problem because the batch was shipped to an EU country.
What I have said is that regulations are different in other parts of the world so with millions of items being sold worldwide it is cost effective to have a 'lower' spec for batches not destined for the EU and N.America.
I totally agree but it is counterproductive if people quote as evidence things which are not 100% certain. The far more dangerous 18.2 + 4.4 million toys which Mattel have admitted have a serious USA created design fault far outways the batch of 49000 toys with lead levels above the zero level allowed in the EC.
Alan
Reply to
Alan P Dawes
The story was about Mattel and whatever the real facts this kind of adverse publicity must be bad for all companies who out-source manufacture ?
The big question is what are companies going to do to regain customer confidence .... my guess is nothing as the consumer will probably be only worried if they are directly affected.
The use of lead based paints / products could have been a problem e.g. one train of thought suggests lead MAY be one of the triggers for autism. Nothing positive and I do not believe in living in fear of eating / drinking / using something which MAY affect my health but lead is known to be harmful to the body.
Reply to
Dragon Heart
"kim" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
I'm not fick either and some of my parents water pipes are *still* lead.
(Oh and I still play with my lead alloy toy soldiers) :-)
Reply to
Chris Wilson
The Romans got their water from lead pipes without problem. Mind you the men did wear skirts and tried to take over the world.
Cheers, Simon
Reply to
simon
Yes Simon "The Romans got their water from lead pipes without problem. Mind you the men did wear skirts and tried to take over the world. "
and look where that lead them ?
Yes Chris about 8 to 9 million houses in the UK still have lead water pipes. Studies have shown that lead can have a small effect on the mental development of children. It may also be a factor in behavioural problems.
Some types of water, particularly soft water, can pick up lead from pipes. Water is treated by your water company to reduce this where needed. In addition, deposits containing lead can build up in pipes & may occasionally be dislodged.
You can take some simple short-term precautions to reduce possible lead levels in water:-
Do not drink water that has been standing in the pipes for long periods, e.g. overnight or if no one has been in for several hours.
In these circumstances, draw off a washing-up bowl of water from the kitchen tap to clear the water which has been standing in the pipes. If the length of lead pipes is 40+ metres, more than a bowl of water will need to be drawn off. First thing in the morning you may not need to draw off a bowl full as you will have already used the toilet flush.
You can then use the water from the kitchen tap as usual.
and Chris you may wish to read this :-
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Like India, China has huge plans for industrial development, power supply and extraction of raw materials. If people lose confidence in their products they will have to change and adopt a better approach but until that time it must not be at the cost of us. That goes for any manufacturer.
The idea of " it was OK in my day " is now simply not accepted, however true the statement is.
Reply to
Dragon Heart
Did I mention it never did me any harm?
Did I mention it never did me any harm?
Pardon?
(kim)
Reply to
kim
kim said the following on 17/08/2007 01:47:
What never did you any harm? What are we talking about?
Eh???
Reply to
Paul Boyd
For a start the UK isn't dominated by rampant corruption. Neither is it dogged by this notion of not losing face. Go to the Far East and get a straight answer to a straight question, impossible. Sure UK industry is not perfect but I know who would generally be more trustworthy. Cheap goods have there place but once we start expecting Western quality procedures what is the point. A friend of mine did safety audits in the Far East and checked a sprinkler system. The system pressurised up ok when tested but the fact that none of the pumps had impellors in them didn't seem to bother the owners.
Kevin
Reply to
Kevin
The BBC article certainly didn't make it clear but the fact that two articles on Chinese quality were in the news on the same day seemed a bit more than coincidence.
Kevin
Reply to
Kevin
I thought that there is some evidense that the fact that the Romans stored wine in lead containers lead to the down fall of the Roman Empire.
Kevin
Reply to
Kevin
Dragon Heart wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
Seen it read it all before, bought the T Shirt, indeed it's been debated here sometime over the last year IIRC.
I live in a nice new modern house, copper pipes, not an ounce of lead in sight ... and lo and behold one suspected cause of BSE/CJD is a copper imbalance in the brain! Plastics poison the atmosphere during production and disposal etc etc etc ...
My Dad's 80 this year and he's still as hot as he ever was brain wise, mother's nearly as old and just as lively. I do believe that some risks are very much over stated. The risks associated with lead poisoning being a case in point. Atmospheric lead - from engine exhausts, well yes I do believe you're on to something, big menace, and of course some water "types" that is the chemical composition of the water can react with lead, but in the main it really is no big thing.
Reply to
Chris Wilson

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