HO versus OO

I agree it isn't going to happen. It would take an enormous investment to even approach the number and variety of models currently on offer in OO to say nothing of the older models. The 'next best' (from the modellers point of view) would be to correct the gauge but I fear this an 'enthusiasts only' option. I've seen some lovely P4 models but being all fingers and thumbs I've never tried to convert anything to P4. If I did give it a whirl what's the easiest GWR/WR model to convert?

I still feel the least the major manufacturers could do is to agree and publish a list of standards for 00. Simon

Eurostars.

Though hardly "widely used", there are/were some class 20s in France, and class 37s on construction trains on the high speed lines in Spain. I think one of the 59s ended up in Germany. Presuambly some freight stock must be used here and abroad.

Modern or industrial buildings can be more "international" in appearance.

In message , Arthur Figgis writes

Have you looked at the offerings from Kibri, Faller and Vollmer? Whilst there are a /few/ buildings that are modern and therefore international the majority of their ranges are most definitely continental and the majority are unmistakably German.

Salvé "Arthur Figgis" skrev i meddelandet news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Dear Arthur, Yes this is to a point true , but even modern image can show some very nationalistic styles, one interesting thing though is that here in scandinavia there are some quite scottish looking indusrtrial buildings, due to a scottish style of building (originating in Glasgow I think...or possibly Edinburgh) starting a movement worldwide, the soap factory (tvålfabriken) in Gnesta is apparently an example of this (its preserved now though heaven only knows why......) but even so most model buildings have to be heavily butchered and those beautiful mediaval castles are so different to anything British (a Broch would be cool !!) that kit bashing would involve a blow torch...... ho hum. Beowulf

Hmmm, so you own no rolling stock from proprietry manufacturers more than about two years old? You did note that I said "basis"?

Regards, Greg.P.

=>I still feel the least the major manufacturers could do is to agree =>and publish a list of standards for 00. =>Simon

What - and risk _real_ competition????

Wolf Kirchmeir ................................. If you didn't want to go to Chicago, why did you get on this train? (Garrison Keillor)

"Gregory Procter" wrote

You're showing an ignorance of the market. There were some excellent OO-scale model freight stock produced further back than that, but I have to admit that with the exception of maybe 10% of my 100+ wagon fleet most are from recent years.

Yes I did - so you chuck away the crap chassis and are left with some pretty inept body mouldings. I can't think of anything from the British Lima HO-scale range which could be improved easier than starting afresh and scratch-building.

On the other hand, some of the OO-scale wagon bodies produced by Hornby back in the 1950s are so good that the simple expedient of fitting an updated chassis makes them more than acceptable in the 21st century.

John.

Here's a list, as definitive as I can find, of trains used in both Britain and the continent, all of them being British in origin. This includes one-offs and test runs:

Class 03: Italy, Belgium Class 04: Italy, Spain Class 07: Italy Class 08: Liberia, Guinea - Gronk-a-likes also worked in the Netherlands Class 11: Clones worked in Europe after WW2 Class 14: Belgium, Spain - the Spanish locomotives were re-gauged Class 20: Three DRS 20s worked across Europe to Kosovo in 2000, four 20s are also present in France Class 37: Spain, France Class 50: Rumours persist of a 50 going to work in Peru! Class 56: Initially tested in Romania Class 58: Netherlands, Spain, and soon to be in France Class 59: Germany Class 66: Numerous Class 66-a-likes are operating across much of Europe Class 67: Initially tested in Spain Class 77: Netherlands Class 89, 90, 91: All travelled to an exhibition in Germany(?) in the 1980s Class 92: One 92 failed while on test in the Czech Republic, and had to be dragged over to Switzerland for repairs at ABB Zurich

Unclassified: LNER electric locomotive "Tommy" (Class 76 prototype) worked in

4000hp prototype loco HS4000 was sold to the Soviet Union

And multiple units: Class 141: Iran Class 220, 221, 222: Tested in Belgium Class 319: A pair of 319s travelled through the Channel Tunnel to France, carrying the Queen, when the tunnel was first opened Class 360: Tested in the Czech Republic And of course: Class 373: Eurostar services, a GNER-liveried set even made it into Belgium on a test run :) An unclassified Pacer prototype was exported to Ireland (not sure if it was Northern or the Republic) in the 1980s.

For the sake of completeness, coaching stock!: Mk1: Ireland Mk2: *drum roll* Ireland, Israel, New Zealand (I've been told) Mk3: Some Mk3 sleepers worked in Denmark for a while, and Mk3 coaches have been built for or exported to Ireland.

A lot of freight stock also works through the channel tunnel between the UK and Europe - not sure of types though.

I think that's the lot! :)

--

*** *** Updated 22 November, now 620 images online. Rich Mackin (rich-at-richmackin.co.uk)

Did some go to Italy?

Now squashed, according to uk.railway.

I think a Voyager ran in France as well.

373s are also used on SNCF domestic services.

Prototype Pacers also made it to North America.

Some third rail EMU stock (Vep?) went to the Siemens test track at Wildenrath in Germany, and Desiros have been delivered to the UK by rail.

Also the NIR locos, coaches and DEMUs which get used in the Republic (and vice versa).

Yes, it did.

Now down to three, IIRC.

Unit 3811. Now back in SWT-land.

Ta,

Yes there are Mk2s in NZ, seen them! They were shipped over to the South Island, in about 1997. In July 1997 I went over to NZ for a holiday, when being driven back from Christchurch Airport to my friends house we crossed a bridge over the railway lines and frieght yards of Christchurch. What was the only train in view? A rake of intercity liveried Mk2s. They have been rebuilt now, with better doors, 3'6" gauge bogies and a sky blue livery. They are known as the BR class of coach and retain their old BR running numbers (IIRC).

Djo

Of course - I don't model in OO scale.

The Lima OO from the end of the seventies were pretty well enlargements of their HO models, other than couplings and wheels. Those same basic models were available over the counter until very recently.

There's only a choice of four models anyway: Box van, mineral, LMS brake and GWR brake. The mineral is the wrong length but the others are adequate.

Get real. Hornby Dublo produced tinplate in the 1950s - well, there was a steel mineral wagon, a bolster wagon and two bogie wagons. In case you mean Rovex/Tri-ang, their "models" were purely toys at that stage - I have a small collection of them here.

(and I thought you were claiming that _I_ was ignorant of the market!)

Regards, Greg.P. Takaka, NZ.

"Gregory Procter" wrote

Sorry mate, but at the risk of being pedantic the Lima OO-scale steam era freight stock was pretty naff too. About the only items of real credibility (and I could pull these to pieces too) were the 6-wheel milk tankers, which I don't recall appearing in HO-scale at all.

Some of their *modern image* freight stock was better, but with virtually all of theses models too, a razor saw is necessary to start to get them looking anything really like the prototype.

I can't think of a single item in their freight stock range which would be acceptable to a serious modeller without some very heavy modification.

John.

In Christchurch??? AFAIK they are all in the Auckland region. The coaches you saw were probably the "Trans Alpine" train - standard 1936-56 coaches rebuilt with continuous deep windows, painted sky blue. The funny story of the BR MkIIs is that the initial batch were purchased by a New Zealand enthusiast to provide enthusiast seating after NZR/Transrail announced they had insufficient stock available to provide coaches for steam runs. This was much the same time as the need for guards vans was eliminated so a large number of relatively new bogie vans were scrapped/sold for hen houses/farm bridges etc so Ian bought up all the redundant bogies. The bogies/vans were designed for both goods and passenger usage :-) Transrail passenger division then panicked (my term - what do I know ;-) and ordered another batch of Mk IIs and then wondered what to do about bogies. Finally, they bought Ian's Mk IIs and bogies against a promise of renting some completed coaches back as required. I haven't kept up with the state of the conversions - I think I remember that one was completed and test run - perhaps there are dozens of them circulating in the North Island, perhaps not, but I'm sure I would have spotted them if they had got to Christchurch (we have _three_ passenger trains per day, departing in the morning and returning evening).

If anyone needs a definative response on the MK IIs I'm sure I can find out.

Regards, Greg.P. Takaka, NZ.

No, the HO range was very limited - there were a few European "models" included in the British range.

That's one of my most used tools. :-)

I didn't claim to be serious - all I want is some British stock to run for comparison with my European stock. Upgraded Lima HO is near enough, after all there is nothing else. I've made a few models myself to increase the range of models. OO models alongside European just look silly, size wise.

Regards, Greg.P.

"Arthur Figgis" skrev i melding news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Weren't there Class 08 switchers in Australia too?

Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, Norway and Sweden

A Class 153 (I _think_) DMU was winter tested in Norway.

Looks like a fair number scattered through Europe, though I suppose nothing in susbstantial numbers in any one country. Thanks for the comprehensive response, very enlightening, Cheers, Bill.