stem era Guard?

I have seen plenty of photos from the BR steam era that generally shows a
brake/guards van at both ends of a passenger train and of course on the end
of goods trains.
My question is this however.
Did a guard ride in the rear coach of a parcel train or at any other point?
If not, why is a parcel train not required to have a guard/brake a the end?
What about mixed trains. I have seen photos of short, 1-4 coach length
passenger trains with what look like 12 ton vans stuck on the back, no
brake/guard at the rear though. How come a 12 ton van in a goods train needs
a brake at the end but when attached to a couple of mk 1 etc it does not?
Reply to
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In article , piemanlarger writes
It has mooted on this group that a passenger train could have a certain number of axles behind the guards brake. Presumably the same applied to parcels trains.
What you are describing, Simon, isn't a mixed train. It's a passenger train with a couple of vans on the rear; but these vans must be vacuum fitted' probably 10' wheelbase and with oil axleboxes. Would also put a speed limit on the train.
A true mixed train is a different beast altogether - but it's getting late and I want to go to bed!
Reply to
John Bishop
For starters, vans trailing a passenger train had to be fitted, and there was a limit on the number of axles behind the guard's brake which applied to both carriages and vans.
Eg towards the end of locomaotive haulage on the trans-Pennine route, a typical train was second, brake second, composite, second.
If the goods train was un-braked it relied on the guard screwing down his brake to help stop the train. This was always (?) the last vehicle.
The mixed trains whose operation I know were on the ex-GWR Culm Valley branch. These had a brake 3rd, milk tanks and another brake third. Passengers were only carried in the leading carriage, and the rear one was used as the guard's van. These trains were fully fitted.
Reply to
Christopher A. Lee
Indeed - don't forget that some designs of electric and diesel MU have their guard's compartments located well inside the set formation.
David E. Belcher
Reply to
David E. Belcher
Even if a MU is different than a train made up of coaching stock, at most an MU was only four cars long with the brake located around the centre.
Back in the Good Old Days, Pompy 4Cors et al were made up into 3 x 4car units to give 12 car trains. Even though each 4 car unit had two brakes, one each end behind the driver's cab, the guard typically rode in the fourth guards compartment from the front. Not even in one of the two brakes in the rear 4 car unit.
-- Cheers Roger T.
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of the Great Eastern Railway
Reply to
Roger T.
"Roger T." wrote Even if a MU is different than a train made up of coaching stock, at most an
FWIW. If there is more than one brake compartment (accessible) on a passenger train (coaches or DMU) the rule book states it is the guards duty to travel in the rear most brake compartment, unless his duties require him else where ( the buffet coach usually!)
Reply to
Andrew Sollis CVMRD
"Mark W" wrote
Kit-kat sellers ;)
No Mark, On our railway, we sell much more than Kit Kats...But I know what you mean! ;-)
-- Andy Sollis Churnet Valley Model Railway Department (Remove the Standard Tank from E-mail to reply)
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Reply to
Andrew Sollis CVMRD

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