Scotrail Push Pull Formations

The way I remember it, the original MK III formation was DBSO - FO - SO - SO - SO -(SO?) - 47/7 The Loco was generally at the Glasgow End.

Then, in the late 80's the FO was converted to a CO and still located at beside the DBSO, although I can't remember which way round the First Class section was located. A SO was removed at that time from the formation.

When the sets went onto the ScotRail Express "Triangle" services, they occasionally became reversed.

The MK II sets were similar in formation, with the FO located beside the DBSO.

As

I think they did, but cant be 100% sure. And your correct, it does look better anyway.

Mk3 CK?

Was there ever such a thing?

I don't think any Mk3 had a side-corridor.

The original formation had 4SOs, plus an FO and a Mk2 DBSO. The original Mk2 push-pull sets (worked to'n'tail by two 27s, both powered) were BSO FK 4SO.

Peter

Can't comment too much on the 27's + Non-aircons, I was meaning the Mk II aircon sets formed latterly, to be honest. ISTR that the Mk II sets had a TSO(B) as well, with the buffet end positioned towards the FO.

There were oddities throughout the era, with a Glasgow - Aberdeen set having a Mk III sleeper as part of the formation, plus the occasional Full Brake.

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:18:51 GMT someone who may be "Not Here" wrote this:-

Edinburgh - Glasgow trains were highly standardised. However, Edinburgh/Glasgow - Aberdeen trains were more varied.

"Bob Wood" wrote

Except sleepers, and the DTF on the Mk3-derived Wessies.

Peter

That's how I remember it too. The Aberdeen sets also included the 2 or 3 Mk II non air-con vehicles that were in Scotrail colours Mk III sets did venture to Aberdeen, but were mainly contained on the E&G.

One Mk3 CO (Composite Open), first class next to the DBSO, followed by

Usual formation was DBSO at the Glasgow end (for both Edinburgh and Aberdeen services).

Sorry, but push-pull 47701-717 were never fitted with snowploughs.

HTH.

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In message , Not Here writes

The loco was normally at the Edinburgh end, AIUI, due to there being no loco wheelslip indication provided in the DBSO.

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:46:26 +0100 someone who may be Kenny wrote this:-

I have no idea about that, though it sounds entirely feasible. The other thing is that the guard had to be at the rear at Queen Street, in case the train needed assistance from the rear on the little hill. Thus the guards van of the 2x27 sets was at the Glasgow end and it was the same with their replacements.

I thought one of the 27's was 'dead?'

James H

In message , J Houston writes

No. They worked in multiple. The coaches were through wired with the Blue Star system. This actually meant any loco with blue star could work, and indeed 37s were used on some test trains. By the way guys, thanks to everyone for all the replies. Most helpful.

Could someone help me in defining periodwise a push pull class 27s period

I also need the transalions in normal joe blogg english of the abbreviations use for the rolling stock. DBSO - FO - SO -

cheers

Dear me, no. The coaching stock had to be modded to provide MU cabling down the length of the train. See for instance.

Sam

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:09:46 +0100 someone who may be "J Houston" wrote this:-

The coaches were fitted with air pipes and control cables to allow the two locomotives to be controlled from one cab. They were also fitted with disc brakes, because of the intensive use and regular descents down the Cowlairs Incline. The locomotives were ISTR modified so that the fire detection system for the rear locomotive indicated in the leading cab.

"ETC" is an abbreviation for "etcetera", which means "and so on".

Does that help?

Cheers, Steve

DBSO - Driving Brake Standard Open SO - Standard Open FO - First Open

Indeed. I can clearly recall being pulled up the Cowlairs incline, rather than pushed. The set involved in the 1984 Falkirk crash was travelling DBSO-first towards Glasgow.

John

Wouldn't have thought so - the fire bell rings (or rather should do) in both locos via wire 22 which would be present without the need for any mods. No idea if the 27/1s and 27/2s had automatic fire extiguishers rather than the break glass and pull handle version.

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