Scotrail Push Pull Formations

I've managed to get together and make up a fair few Scotrail liveried Mark 3s, about 6 of the all told, plus a Mk2 DBSO, as well as a Heljan
47/7. Can anyone tell me if there was any set consist? The only thing I really need to know is how many CKs were in the train, and where they were. As I recall, the 47 was always at the Edinburgh end. On another note, did the locos every carry snowploughs? I can't recall it, but I fitted them anyway, if only because it improves the model and the body overhand and front gap on the bogie isn't so obvious.
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James Christie
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The way I remember it, the original MK III formation was DBSO - FO - SO - SO - SO -(SO?) - 47/7 The Loco was generally at the Glasgow End.
Then, in the late 80's the FO was converted to a CO and still located at beside the DBSO, although I can't remember which way round the First Class section was located. A SO was removed at that time from the formation.
When the sets went onto the ScotRail Express "Triangle" services, they occasionally became reversed.
The MK II sets were similar in formation, with the FO located beside the DBSO.
As

I think they did, but cant be 100% sure. And your correct, it does look better anyway.
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Mark
The original formation had 4SOs, plus an FO and a Mk2 DBSO. The original Mk2 push-pull sets (worked to'n'tail by two 27s, both powered) were BSO FK 4SO.
Peter
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Can't comment too much on the 27's + Non-aircons, I was meaning the Mk II aircon sets formed latterly, to be honest. ISTR that the Mk II sets had a TSO(B) as well, with the buffet end positioned towards the FO.
There were oddities throughout the era, with a Glasgow - Aberdeen set having a Mk III sleeper as part of the formation, plus the occasional Full Brake.
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On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:18:51 GMT someone who may be "Not Here"

Edinburgh - Glasgow trains were highly standardised. However, Edinburgh/Glasgow - Aberdeen trains were more varied.
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David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
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wrote this:-

That's how I remember it too. The Aberdeen sets also included the 2 or 3 Mk II non air-con vehicles that were in Scotrail colours Mk III sets did venture to Aberdeen, but were mainly contained on the E&G.
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I thought one of the 27's was 'dead?'
James H
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No. They worked in multiple. The coaches were through wired with the Blue Star system. This actually meant any loco with blue star could work, and indeed 37s were used on some test trains. By the way guys, thanks to everyone for all the replies. Most helpful.
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Dear me, no. The coaching stock had to be modded to provide MU cabling down the length of the train. See <http://www.traintesting.com/push-pull.htm for instance.
Sam
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:09:46 +0100 someone who may be "J Houston"

The coaches were fitted with air pipes and control cables to allow the two locomotives to be controlled from one cab. They were also fitted with disc brakes, because of the intensive use and regular descents down the Cowlairs Incline. The locomotives were ISTR modified so that the fire detection system for the rear locomotive indicated in the leading cab.
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David Hansen wrote:

Wouldn't have thought so - the fire bell rings (or rather should do) in both locos via wire 22 which would be present without the need for any mods. No idea if the 27/1s and 27/2s had automatic fire extiguishers rather than the break glass and pull handle version.
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D5233 wrote:

Was it a pull handle and steel cable on small Sulzers? I've always associatd that with EE designs. Isn't it a push button, electrically firing the CO2 bottles, as on a large Sulzer (Class 47)? If so, discharging the bottles on the distant loco becomes a trivial modification.
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The loco was normally at the Edinburgh end, AIUI, due to there being no loco wheelslip indication provided in the DBSO.
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Kenny

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On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:46:26 +0100 someone who may be Kenny

I have no idea about that, though it sounds entirely feasible. The other thing is that the guard had to be at the rear at Queen Street, in case the train needed assistance from the rear on the little hill. Thus the guards van of the 2x27 sets was at the Glasgow end and it was the same with their replacements.
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wrote this:-

Indeed. I can clearly recall being pulled up the Cowlairs incline, rather than pushed. The set involved in the 1984 Falkirk crash was travelling DBSO-first towards Glasgow.
John
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Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as John Walker

It was normal practice to have the 47/7 leading out of QS, but not unknown to occasionally see trains the other way round. The reason I heard for the normal practice was that there had been cases of buffer-lock and severed buffer heads when 47s pushed the trains out of QS, though I've no idea if this was true or not.
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Could someone help me in defining periodwise a push pull class 27s period 1970 80 as thats the livery that I have on my 2 x class 27s
I also need the transalions in normal joe blogg english of the abbreviations use for the rolling stock. DBSO - FO - SO -

cheers
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"ETC" is an abbreviation for "etcetera", which means "and so on".
Does that help?
Cheers, Steve
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DBSO - Driving Brake Standard Open SO - Standard Open FO - First Open
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In typed:

Mk3 CK?
Was there ever such a thing?
I don't think any Mk3 had a side-corridor.
--
Bob



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