Question about GWR train formations

Hi all,
I have just acquired a brake-3rd, all 3rd, and 3rd-1st. How would these
three coaches be marshalled in a branchline or mainline stopping train?
(The loco is an 0-6-0PT).
Thanks,
wolf k.
Reply to
Wolf K
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OK guys, I'm sorry I fed the global warming distraction.
Now could someone please advise me? I'm only running this train under the Christmas tree, but I would like it to be correctly formed.
Thanks,
wolf k.
Reply to
Wolf K
If it were me, I would put the brake-3rd in the middle, with the other two coaches on either side, with the first class towards the middle of the train.
Reply to
Jane Sullivan
Why wouldn't the brake-3rd go last with the 3rd toward the middle? Could you explain your reasoning? Thanks
Reply to
LDosser
Were it LMS then brake at either extreme but preferably last, 1st can be either middle or behind loco. Normally with 3 coaches then they would have had 2 brakes, one at either end. Perhaps you should put brake behind loco, then the 1st then the full 3rd, that way you could say the last coach is to be dropped (or slipped) on route.
cheers, Simon
Reply to
simon
Many modellers and preserved railways do this, but in practice they could be mixed up any which way - although I can't speak for the GWR.
Reply to
MartinS
Like US practice. Express, mail and baggage all generally go on the loco end. If a combination passenger baggage the passenger end generally goes toward the middle - keeps passengers out of areas they do not need to access while allowing them the freedom of the remainder of the train.
Is that similar to BR practice?
Reply to
LDosser
I have many memories on BR of walking through brake vans/luggage vans and First Class coaches. Trains were (still are) often split or combined en route, so there could be several brake vans in the train.
The only thing you didn't get to walk through was TPO coaches!
Reply to
MartinS
No.
What looks like a combine isn't just a luggage area. It's the guard's compartment (conductor) with a screw brake. If it was a corridor vehicle (ie diaphragm connections) there was a side corridor separated from the luggage compartment by a wire mesh. It's not an issue for a non-corridor train.
But I saw very little in the way of baggage carried in it. When I was a student in the late 1960s I would put my bicycle in it - and often ride with it, keeping the guard company.
It was not uncommon to find a brake third in the middle of the train especially when it was formed of more than one portion. For a short train there wasn't really any point in having a brake third at each end - it just wasted space. Twenty-five years ago when I used to travel regularly between Manchester and Leeds these trains had 4 carriages, with the brake second in the middle. The short trains on the West Highland line also had the brake second in the middle. Regarding the original poster's question, I looked at pictured in books on the Fairford branch and other cross-country lines running that sort of train, and found examples of the brake in the middle as well as at one end.
In earlier days like my own modelling era, carriages were shorter and wooden. The train would be topped and tailed with a guard/luggage van. These were also a passenger safety factor because they took the brunt of any collision. Also in those days people traveled with more luggage.
In more recent times, I never understood the rationale behind the GWR B-Set which seemed to have luggage/etc space out of proportion for such a short train.
Reply to
Christopher A. Lee
Short trains like this (North Somerset line : Bristol to Frome for example,) would normally be a B set whereas Bristol to Avonmouth or Filton with lots of workers would be 5 carriages (non corridor). Sometimes they looked as if the ancient almost abandoned carriages (non cleristory but almost) were marshalled for an outing!
Some mail and parcels were carried but most of the space was occupied by bicycles, prams and pushchairs.
It was normal to go into Plymouth from St Budeaux with our twin pram -- you certainly could not do that on a bus! With more than 20,000 workers moving on the quoted trains each day the G (WR) were busy little bees!
Today, one line is a memory and the other restricted to a single car DMU sometimes.
The direct answer is that the NC trains were made up with a brake/ parcels comp at each end. Ist was always in the safest position!
Regards
Reply to
Sailor
Because when the train reaches its destination, the loco runs round it and hooks onto the other end ready for the return journey. If the brake-3rd were last it now becomes first. It is better to have it in the middle.
There are plenty of pictures showing trains made up this way.
Reply to
Jane Sullivan
"Graham Harrison" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@bt.com...
Unorthodox Christmas? (I wasn't aware Orthodox Jews celebrated Christmas :-)
Reply to
Jane Sullivan
"LDosser" wrote
When the train reversed at the branch terminus that would mean the brake coach would be at the front, not that it would really matter with a continuous braked train - the brake van really only provides accomodation for the guard and a parking brake.
John.
Reply to
John Turner

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