Moaning about new models.

There are many examples to quote but.... I wonder how much it cost to correct the brand-new but faulty class 56 prototypes and how long were they out of service..??

Are you saying that the relevant manufacturers are correct in producing inaccurate models and/or that they can produce such models but that they can't produce their models to the correct measurements, contours or colors.....

Every manufacturer of the class 37 model has got it wrong in one way or another but not all share the same faults....based on this, it would appear that it's definitely O.K. to produce an inaccurate model and that there is not one manufacturer who is capable of producing an accurate model for the same price of an accurate model.....

The Hornby class 50 is wrong and the Bachmann class's 37/44 are wrong....we all know about the class 37 but have they tried to fit a short-length class

40 nose to the 44 ??......please don't try to convince anybody that they can't produce something correctly but can only produce something of incorrect statistics for the same price.

Regards,

Colin Meredith.

"Robert Wilson" wrote

So explain to me please why when there are manufacturers' drawings available and preserved examples of many of the recent releases available to be measured is it easier and less expensive to make an incorrect model than one which is prototypically accurate?

I'll await your answer with extreme interest, but don't waffle, because there are plenty of people on here with trade and manufacturing knowledge who will jump on you if you post a load of rubbish!

John.

Surely it's the business of the individual. Or are we supposed to be sheep?

Pete

BTW:

We (us modellers) pay for the food on their tables and the roof over their heads. We pay their council tax, their electricity bills, their water rates. This christmas we will be providing their families with the presents under the tree.

They (the manufacturers) should be congratulating -us-, not the other way around.

Pete

"Robert Wilson" wrote

Come on, you wouldn't get a decent locomotive model for such a paltry amount, but let's be fair if the rewards didn't justify the investment then no-one would invest.

Just look at Hornby's recent share price; it hasn't gone through the roof as a result of them trying to wholesale radio controlled toys and pound puppies (and they've tried both in the past) it's because of their involvement & investment in their core model railway market, and only then because they've started to produce stuff that the trade was telling them ten years ago was needed.

On the other hand don't expect the consumer to be fooled forever, Hornby have survived by the skin of their teeth, but at long last are beginning to listen to their retailers and consumers. Power to their elbow - providing they keep listening!

John.

A fair point John and only manufactures know the answer, and that's the way they want it I suspect. My view is this. I came back into the bobby two years ago after a break of around 18 years. Ok some models, class 56 disiesel, Hornby (Airfix) 2P and a "Few" other have hardly changed, but the majority and especially the new models (Q1, M/Navy etc) are a million times better than in 1987 ish (Comapre Fowler tanks). So, we should be very happy with the quality of current models are they are superb in looks and running compared to days of old. However, if they are perfect now, what are we going to buy in 5-10 years time when the perfect class 50 is produced, nothing, we already got one! So manufactures are nearly producing the goods now with a view to improving models yet further in the next few years and thus still looking forward to good sales as they market the "new and 100% perfect" models!

Its a conspiracy???????

"piemanlarger" wrote

The 50 is very, very good, but it ain't perfect, and I'm disappointed in you Simon if you think it is. I'm not going to list its faults here, they've already been stated in depth elsewhere, but just compare your model with a photograph of the real thing and then tell me that the recessed (and allegedly moveable) radiator grills are not too far recessed.

I don't say this as a serious criticism of the class 50, just to point out that it is generally possible to improve on something. You can't improve on perfection.

John.

J.T. said,

You can't improve on perfection.

It would appear the manufacturers can't improve on imperfection either....!!

Colin Meredith.

=>Are you saying that the relevant manufacturers are correct in producing =>inaccurate models and/or that they can produce such models but that they =>can't produce their models to the correct measurements, contours or =>colors.....

What measurements are off? By how much? Can you tell without measuring the model? If you didn't _know_ it was off by a millimetre here and a millimetre there, would you notice?

What details are off? Have you got photographic evidence that all engines of this should or should not have some detail? That this engine never did or always did have some detail? Etc.

Contours - the angle of view affects these in ways that are surprising, to put it gently. IOW, an accurate model may not look right to you simply because you are not an OO size person -- and setting photos side by side won't work as "proof", unless the camera has exactly the same angle of view for model and protoype - not easy to achieve.

As for bodies and mechs -- that's the main source of dimensional errors in models, which will be too long or too short for a very simple reason. In a small market such as the UK, mfrs will try to save costs by marrying different bodies to the same mech - if the difference in wheelbase is within "acceptable" limits. Bodies will be lengthened or shortened to suit. You could have exact models of all versions of a the 37s if you want - at couple hundred pounds or more each.

As for colours --- under what lighting conditions are you viewing the model? Change from incandescent to fluorescent, change to different fluorescents, change the wattage in the incandescente, etc etc and the colours will look different. Change the room colour - a warm white room will make colours look different than cool white one. Do you have shades over the lamps? If so, they will affect the colour (not to mention the inetensity of the ight, which also affects the colour.)

In "real life" sunshine and cloud, not to mention the effects of wind and weather and dirt of all kinds on the paint itself, all influence the colour. I've seen photos of the same engine taken at the same time by two different people on the same film - but the pictures showed different colours. Which one gets the prize for accuracy? I have photos of the same engines taken at different times and places - they're all different in colour. Oh, the colour scheme's the same, but the actual tones of the colours vary, sometimes quite a bit.

Then there's the superstition that if you get actual paint chips and match them you will get accurate colours. Not in the typical layout room you won't- lthe light source is the wrong colour, and too dim besides, so that "real" colours will look way too dark, and if the lighting is incandescent, the blues and greens especially will be off.

And so on.

OTOH, I do expect the numbers to be accurate. :-)

Wolf Kirchmeir ................................. If you didn't want to go to Chicago, why did you get on this train? (Garrison Keillor)

time when the perfect class 50 is produced, nothing, we already got one!

I'm sorry to disagree Si but the Hornby class 50 is anything but perfect......in 5-10 years from now there shouldn't be any poor models of any description.

Colin Meredith.

"Colin Meredith"

Ah, by then you'll be where the best North American rtr models were about 15 years ago. ::-)

-- Cheers Roger T.

of the Great Eastern Railway

But its still a toy....

Experts, it would seem, are baffled by the "compromises in the manufacturing processes" virus and attempts to study it have been hampered by it's seemingly random nature, although it does seem to largely target UK products. Popular toy train manufacturers Bachmann were reportedly very pleased with savings that just a couple of mm off a loco's nose can bring, but a spokesperson for a leading Danish rival said "the extra plastic used in our first loco nearly sent us to the wall."

Because of it's localised nature, scientists believe the virus to be a machine-readable form of BSE, certainly BS at the very least. Consumption of infected fodder can lead to disorientation, with victims wandering around wibbling about "it'll improve with running in", "that red one's pretty - look at the ickle lights" and "could we save a few bob more if we reduced the track gauge to 15mm?"

The Minister for BS said today that no evidence had been found that the virus even existed, and that it was the fault of the previous Conservative government.

The USA and mainland Europe are today considering banning imports of UK products to prevent the spread of the virus.

-- Regards,

Steve Jones, Shropshire, England

In message , Robert Wilson writes

Please don't include me in this...

... because I have never whined about the so-called errors in new models of locomotives, or indeed anything else. As I have stated in the past, I am running an "impressionistic" model railway, which means that the stuff I run has to look like the prototype, but absolute scale fidelity is not important. In any case, anyone running a layout in OO has no grounds for complaint about inaccuracies, given the massive inaccuracy they have already accepted in the track gauge.

"Roger T." wrote

I think some of us would settle for that!

As a consumer I find it objectionable that people like Robert Wilson think I should put up with whatever's put before me.

John.

manufacturing

models. I agree that whineging and moaning will not help but action will. We need a standards organisation like the NMRA to champion the modellers cause. This works as European and American model trains have been for years superior to our own. I acknowledge the fact there have been some excellent improvements in standards on limited models....but not all the range....there are still no DCC fitted train sets etc. While we have the usual British apathy of procrastination, the tail will wag the dog and to quote the famous American automobile manufactuer: "You may have it in any colour providing it is black!". regards, Steve

>

What gets me is that it is possible for manufacturers to get models right today, as long as they do their research, but that they still continue to make errors. In some cases manufacturing compromises will come into play, but considering the state of the plastic injection moulding 'art' these compromises should be few and far between. We should not be fobbed off complaining because if we continue to accept errors, we will continue to get errors, when they are, in the main, unnecessary.

Ian J.