An open letter to Model Railroader about the BL niagara

This is a letter I wrote to MR magazine.

Since Terry Thompson is a gutless weasel he naturally didn't publish it. =======================================================================

As a New York Central fan I have a few words to say about the choice of the Niagara by Broadway Limited. While it's a very nice model I think that the money spent for tooling for a prototype that only had 27 locomotives ever built is wasteful. The only thing less useful would be a model of one of the Boston and Albany's Boston area commuter steam locomotives.

There are several locomotives that we New York Central modelers really need that are much more deserving of being manufactured and ought to have been produced before the Niagara was.

The New York Central owned over seven hundred mikados. A mikado in one of the myriad H-5 two dozen sub-classes would have been much better choice. The Central owned twelve H-5s for each Niagara they owned. The H-5 was used nearly system wide on the Central. In addition, they were on the road for four decades versus the Niagara's one.

Next would be a H-10 class. The H-10 was the locomotive that touched off the superpower era of steam. The Central had 302 in three sub-classes. The New York Central owned over eleven for each Niagara they owned. In addition, they were on the road for three decades versus the Niagara's one.

For the Central's Lines West crowd a H-7 is not unreasonable. There were 130 in five sub-classes. That's almost five for each Niagara owned. In addition, they were on the road for three decades versus the Niagara's one.

Next, the Central's big freight and multipurpose locomotive, the Mohawk. The Mohawk is also a better candidate for a model than a Niagara. The Central had six hundred of them in four classes.

The L-1, with four subclasses was the second most numerous Mohawk on the road. The New York Central owned nearly seven of them for each Niagara they owned. In addition, they were on the road for four decades versus the Niagara's one.

Likewise the L-2, with four sub-classes, was the most numerous Mohawk in the Central. It rivaled the H-5 and H-10 Mikados for the honor of being the most numerous freight locomotive. The New York Central owned over eleven of them for each Niagara they owned. In addition, they were on the road for three decades versus the Niagara's one.

Even the L-3 and L-4 Mohawk's with rosters of 65 and 50 locomotives respectively outnumber the Niagaras at around two to one. They were on the roster for a longer time then the Niagara.

I could go into the Central's vast collection of pacific types but I think I've already made my point. Making the model of a Niagara, a locomotive of limited use and extremely short time frame of usage on the Central just isn't smart. I wish manufacturers would consider such things much more carefully before deciding to make a new model.

This should be especially obvious in the case of the Niagara given that there is a Bachmann model, while not a outstanding model but at least available, of the prototype already available. Instead of two useful models of two different prototypes we have two models of one. If you're going to pick a prototype to cut new tooling for at least pick one that has many examples built

Reply to
newyorkcentralfan
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Did you happened to write the mfg of the product in question?

snipped-for-privacy@bigfoot.com wrote:

Reply to
Norvin (remove SPAM)

I doubt that I'm the only one that's drooling for a CMSP&P Hiawatha, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get it. NYC models do exactly nothing for me.

IOW: Be thankful that they at least modeled something from an area you're interested in, and remember that there may be a lot of other guys that are delighted to see it.

Rich

Reply to
Richard

Well, since no other model railroad magazine is going to publish it either, their editors must all be gutless weasels also.

If you didn't send it to other magazines also, maybe you are a gutless weasel who is afraid to see if any of the other hobby press will publish your letter.

If I were publisher of Model Railroader, I wouldn't publish it either.

Why didn't you send this to Broadway Limited?

Reply to
Mark Mathu

Get a life. Businesses are in business to make money. If you don't like the product they produce, don't buy it and shaddup. Do you complain when Tonka puts out another model of dump truck instead of a '57 Chevy pickup? Prefacing your letter with name calling tells me that you are just a big self-centered kid playing with trains.

And what is this about taking MR to task when you are upset with a particular business? Couldn't you find the address? MR produces magazines last time I checked, not models. Do you complain to your plumber when your lights flicker, and call him a ferret when he doesn't respond?

Your points about which locomotives might be valuable additions made some sense for those who will spend the bucks to actually build a layout and buy the engines. How many of those people are there, what is the cost of tooling up, and will enough of your friends seriously commit to buying to make the effort worthwhile? Have you considered that a list of a couple hundred people - with addresses and phone numbers- sent to the company, endorsing a new model idea, just might have a slightly better chance of succeeding than a rant that complains about the company?

A lot of your problem could also be solved by something rare called "s c r a t c h b u i l d i n g" or even "k i t b a s h i n g." I remember as a kid I couldn't afford to buy a $4.95 passenger car, so I made my own. I graduated to filing down castings and learning how to drill itty bitty holes to get a kitbash looking close to a Rutland prototype.

Sorry for the rant of my own, but your attitude reminded me of that of an ex-girlfriend.

Reply to
3D

NYCfan:

I'm not a gutless weasel, and I wouldn't publish that cranky letter if you paid me to do it. The fact that Bachmann makes a Niagara should show why BLI did too. It doesn't matter to a model railroad manufacturer or importer how many locomotives of a given type the prototype railroad owned; what matters is how many people will buy one. The Niagaras were famous engines, and a lot of people want one. There were only 4 B&O Little Joe switchers, but the design made a good, useful HO loco, not too expensive, able to handle sharp curves, and with room for the motors of the time. Because of this, probably a hundred thousand models of these engines were sold.

So stop taking these puerile jabs at Terry Thompson.

Cordially yours, Gerard P.

Reply to
pawlowsk002

[...]

Sure, you NYC modellers want these, but the rest of us think "Niagra" when we think NYC. And if we buy any NYC loco at all, it will be -- wait for it -- a Niagara. That loco has an appeal well beyond the confines of NYC prototype modellers, and hence a larger market, large enough to repay the costs of tooling. It is a sad fact of mass modelling life that tooling costs must be recoverd over thousands of copies, and that means selecting a loco that has mass appeal. The Niagara even has appeal in Europe, where there is a sizeable group of collectors and fans of US railroading.

Re: your list of locos you would like to see: Frankly, I've never heard of them. Don't have much interest in them, either, unfortunately.

I feel your pain - I would love to see a bunch of CN and CP locos made in plastic by BLI or Proto2000, but I don't expect that will happen. Like other fans of these two world-class railroads, I have to content myself with "good enough" stand-ins, or take the time to hack and drill and glue in order to "improve" the looks. Or buy brass.

Sigh.

Reply to
Wolf Kirchmeir

Terry Thompson has to answer to Russ Larson and manage to keep himself employed at the same time. No easy task. If you want to rant at Model Railroader you need to go higher than Terry. He just works there and does what he is told to do.

That being said, I wouldn't publish it either if I ran a model railroad oriented magazine. It doesn't belong in a magazine, it belongs on the desk of whomever is responsible for the decision making at Broadway.

As a GM&O modeler, I would like to see Athearn Genesis or Proto 2000 quality DL-109s, RS-2s, EAs and an Ingalls 4S. Also a Rebel trainset and some ACF and Brill gas-electrics. But guess what. It ain't gonna happen.

And none of them are on a par with the Niagara outside of your coterie. Niagara means New York Central. Period. It is the locomotive that everyone knows and wants. Just like the various EMD F units and SD40s are for diesels.

FWIW, a model of the B&A commuter engines would probably sell more copies than a Lima L4b

Go here to see some NYC locos:

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Some people act like their favorite railroad is the only one that matters, or that it is the only one anyone is interested in. That just isn't so, whether you like NYC, Union Pacific, GM&O or whatever. When you are in the business of making and selling model locomotives, you have to sell what the most people want. Period Otherwise, you will be in business only until your money runs out.

Froggy,

Reply to
Froggy

What does belong in a model railway magazine is a report on the appalling lack of quality and design control on the Athearn 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 that has sidelined many a model and Athearn's seeming indifference to the problem of the cracking drive gears.

-- Cheers Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway

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Reply to
Roger T.

That's an interesting concept. I can just imagine if BLI came out with a darn good model of a New Haven I-5 4-6-4 (of which they had 10, and they lasted less than 15 years), and I posted a letter condeming them as "wasteful" for doing the I-5 vs. a K-1 Mogul (80 units) , a G-4a Ten Wheeler (50 units), I-4 Pacific (50 units), L-1 Santa Fe (50 units), R-1 Mountain (50 units), T-2b 0-6-0 (95 units), etc. (all of which lasted some 30-40 years) My fellow New Haven fans in the New Haven Railroad Historical & Technical Association would skin me alive! Maybe that's why there aren't that many NYC fans that I've ever seen... LOL

Paul A. Cutler III

************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************
Reply to
Pac Man

| Terry Thompson has to answer to Russ Larson and manage to keep himself employed at | the same time.

Larson retired several years ago. Thompson recently was promoted to publisher of all the modeling magazines as well as continuing as editor of MR.

CTucker Masthead, NY

Reply to
Christian

What is over the top is that Broadway Limited is making their Alco RSD-15 in a GB&W paint-out scheme.

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These locos were bought from the ex-LS&I primarily for parts (and the tools that came with them) and saw very limited use during their four years on the railroad. From what us GB&W modelers have been able to determine, after their arrival they never traveled further from the shops than two miles to the nearby C&NW interchange. The six engines spent most of their time in storage on a track in Green Bay.

And to top it off, Broadway Limited offers the loco with sound! What will that be like: - Rattling connecting rods - Leaking oil - Hammer on metal - Tools removing parts - Mechanic hitting his thumb with a hammer - Chief mechanical officer yelling at mechanic - Crickets - Whistling wind - Silence (in full stereo)

Reply to
Mark Mathu

The submarine on wheels!

Reply to
Mark Mathu

. . . and more:

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Reply to
Steve Caple

Yes I did. I didn't get an answer from them.

Eric

Reply to
newyorkcentralfan

Negative on the retirement He is no longer editor of MR, but he still has his hand in Kalmbach's pot. He didn't just go away. Froggy,

Reply to
Froggy

Well, yeah,.....sorta. Froggy,

Reply to
Froggy

The letter was in response to their product review of the model.

One does not generally send a letter about a piece in one magazine to another.

Duh Mark.

Eric

"> Since Terry Thompson is a gutless weasel he naturally didn't publish

Well, since no other model railroad magazine is going to publish it either, their editors must all be gutless weasels also.

If you didn't send it to other magazines also, maybe you are a gutless weasel who is afraid to see if any of the other hobby press will publish your letter.

If I were publisher of Model Railroader, I wouldn't publish it either.

Why didn't you send this to Broadway Limited?"

Reply to
newyorkcentralfan

Well back in the early 1970s [1970-1] MR published a letter from an irate reader complaining about decals that walthers had just created and was advertizing in the magazine.

Evidentally Lyn Westcott and Al Kalmbach weren't gutless weasels and had no problem publishing uncomplementary letters in their magazine.

So maybe you ought to rethink your position on if you're a gutless weasel or not.

Eric

Gerard P. wrote:

"I'm not a gutless weasel, and I wouldn't publish that cranky letter if

you paid me to do it. The fact that Bachmann makes a Niagara should show why BLI did too. It doesn't matter to a model railroad manufacturer or importer how many locomotives of a given type the prototype railroad owned; what matters is how many people will

buy one. The Niagaras were famous engines, and a lot of people want one. There were

only 4 B&O Little Joe switchers, but the design made a good, useful HO loco, not too expensive, able to handle sharp curves, and with room for the motors of the time. Because of this, probably a hundred thousand models of these engines were sold.

So stop taking these puerile jabs at Terry Thompson."

Reply to
newyorkcentralfan

I think the concept of having the locomotives that actually did the work of the railroad and that you were most likely to see or have seen everyday on the railroad is a great idea when you're trying to model that railroad.

I'd suggest that they're not really NH fans if they don't want the real meat of their favorite road. Especially when one puff piece model's already available.

Eric

Paul wrote:

"That's an interesting concept. I can just imagine if BLI came out with a darn good model of a New Haven I-5 4-6-4 (of which they had 10, and they lasted less than 15 years), and I posted a letter condeming them as "wasteful" for doing the I-5 vs. a K-1 Mogul (80 units) , a G-4a Ten Wheeler (50 units), I-4 Pacific (50 units), L-1 Santa Fe (50 units), R-1 Mountain (50 units), T-2b 0-6-0 (95 units), etc. (all of which lasted some 30-40

years) My fellow New Haven fans in the New Haven Railroad Historical &

Technical Association would skin me alive! Maybe that's why there aren't that many NYC fans that I've ever seen..."

Reply to
newyorkcentralfan

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