An open letter to Model Railroader about the BL niagara



What is over the top is that Broadway Limited is making their Alco RSD-15 in a GB&W paint-out scheme.
http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/images/rsd15/gbw.jpg
These locos were bought from the ex-LS&I primarily for parts (and the tools that came with them) and saw very limited use during their four years on the railroad. From what us GB&W modelers have been able to determine, after their arrival they never traveled further from the shops than two miles to the nearby C&NW interchange. The six engines spent most of their time in storage on a track in Green Bay.
And to top it off, Broadway Limited offers the loco with sound! What will that be like: - Rattling connecting rods - Leaking oil - Hammer on metal - Tools removing parts - Mechanic hitting his thumb with a hammer - Chief mechanical officer yelling at mechanic - Crickets - Whistling wind - Silence (in full stereo)
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The submarine on wheels!
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On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 08:00:09 GMT, Mark Mathu wrote:

. . . and more:
http://www.karenparker.net/PixelMagic/pixelmagic.htm
--
Steve

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YOU SIR, have entirely too much time on your hands. Wanna come over to my house and help me build my railroad?
Those were great, Steve. thanks for sharing them.

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Well, yeah,.....sorta. Froggy,
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On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 19:31:51 GMT, Froggy wrote:

It does sorta look like an early Soviet Hotel Class missile sub.
--
Steve

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wrote:

Ingalls built those Hotels for the Russkis under contract from the Smolensk plant. You do know that whole "Cold War" thing was a conspiracy conducted by the two governments, don't you? They wanted 1500 of the locomotives, but the State Department said nyet. Woulda created lotsa jobs in Pascagoula.
Froggy,
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For what it's worth, I was at Trainfest here in Milwaukee this wekend, and I stopped at the Global Outlet Corporation booth. They are going to be importing a brass Ingalls 4-S. You can look and drool... just shield your eyes from the price. http://www.globaloutlet.com/
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message

<major snip>
That's an interesting concept. I can just imagine if BLI came out with a darn good model of a New Haven I-5 4-6-4 (of which they had 10, and they lasted less than 15 years), and I posted a letter condeming them as "wasteful" for doing the I-5 vs. a K-1 Mogul (80 units) , a G-4a Ten Wheeler (50 units), I-4 Pacific (50 units), L-1 Santa Fe (50 units), R-1 Mountain (50 units), T-2b 0-6-0 (95 units), etc. (all of which lasted some 30-40 years) My fellow New Haven fans in the New Haven Railroad Historical & Technical Association would skin me alive! Maybe that's why there aren't that many NYC fans that I've ever seen... LOL
Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************
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I think the concept of having the locomotives that actually did the work of the railroad and that you were most likely to see or have seen everyday on the railroad is a great idea when you're trying to model that railroad.
I'd suggest that they're not really NH fans if they don't want the real meat of their favorite road. Especially when one puff piece model's already available.
Eric
Paul wrote:
"That's an interesting concept. I can just imagine if BLI came out with a darn good model of a New Haven I-5 4-6-4 (of which they had 10, and they lasted less than 15 years), and I posted a letter condeming them as "wasteful" for doing the I-5 vs. a K-1 Mogul (80 units) , a G-4a Ten Wheeler (50 units), I-4 Pacific (50 units), L-1 Santa Fe (50 units), R-1 Mountain (50 units), T-2b 0-6-0 (95 units), etc. (all of which lasted some 30-40
years) My fellow New Haven fans in the New Haven Railroad Historical &
Technical Association would skin me alive! Maybe that's why there aren't that many NYC fans that I've ever seen..."
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On 12 Nov 2005 12:29:42 -0800, " snipped-for-privacy@bigfoot.com"

That's right Eric, they aren't. 99% of the folks that buy a particular road's steam locomotive are not modelers of that road. They just like the engine. THAT'S who you have to sell to to stay in business.
You are never going to see what you posted in that letter. Get used to it.
Froggy,
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Do you think that NH I-5's and NYC Niagras didn't do any of the work of the railroad? The NH I-5's (all 10) you could see just about hourly between Boston and New Haven. The I-5's were the big steam passenger power on the road, and handled all the important trains for almost all of those 15 years they were running: Merchants Limited, Yankee Clipper, Gilt Edge, etc. I assume the Niagras were also used in a simular manner, being reserved for the best and fastest trains, right? Kinda makes them famous, eh? I wonder why someone who wants to make money would ever want to make a model of a famous engine? Hmm... Like Lionel and the PRR 6-8-6 Turbine...

They have a very poor rendidtion of a NH I-5 by IHC available. The only thing right is the wheel arrangement. If I and all my NH friends are not really NH fans because we want an I-5 model vs. a K-1d Mogul, then you are not really a NYC fan if you don't want a Niagra. BTW, Weaver did make a fairly accurate O-scale NH I-5. So far, I have yet to hear any whining about the lack of a really good O-scale NH J-1 Mikado.
Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************
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wrote:
There are two problems that have been voiced here, the first being, as always, someone's favorite road was modelled, and not the item he wanted. Quick answer, tough. For some odd and unfathomable reason, the railroads ran what worked for them in the application they were in. For the same reason, what will be modelled is going to be something that's going to sell, or they hope it is.
The next, it used to be that when someone wanted a specific loco, they bought a generic loco and added detail to make it. It was never a perfect answer, but much better than complaining that something they wanted wasn't available.
The original poster here probably doesn't care one whit about GBW, more or less restricted to one state, but also probably doesn't bother to think that NYC gets the same from me, as well as PRR. HOwever, if a loco looks interesting to me, and the price is reasonanble, I'll probably have one sooner or later even if I never intend on running it. BL prices being somewhat above what I'm going to pay for curiosity, what they make isn't a factor. THose that are NYC fans, just be happy that something is available. For those that model logging or mining, there's a lot less that can be run without adding quite a lot. But, that's where the fun is.
Not that I don't think a streamlined Hudson in CMSP&P color wouldn't be nice, I'm just not going to hold my breath.
Rich
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An F-7 Baltic, a-la 1938, would be the bomb! A well done, prototypically correct '39 Hiawatha train set to go with it would send me to the poor house, cause I'd have to get it. Southern Pacific claimed the Daylights were "The most beautiful train in the world." Obviously, no one working for SP had ever seen the Hiawathas. The Daylights were cute, in a California sort of way, but the Hiawathas were not only beautiful inside and out, they exuded class as well. Back in the '70s I built a complete, 1948 Olympian Hiawatha in O scale for a fellow who had an A-B-A set of Erie Builts scratch built to pull it. What a thing of great beauty it was.
Froggy,
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the world."

were not only

Sorry, Froggy, but I have to concur with what NH historian (and author of "New Haven Power") Jack Swanberg said of the Hiawathas and others like it on page 152 of his Power book. He called them "ungainly 'inverted bathtub' monsters". :-) And in that, I have to agree. I'm afraid that I don't find much appeal in any of those designs. But that's alright, I don't much like the Daylights either. Too many odd bumps and rough corners, IMHO (the smokebox door especially). But then, I'm totally biased towards anything New Haven, so take my opinion with a grain of salt (or two). LOL I'll take anything NH over anything else, even those "toothache" cross compound T-1 0-6-0's the NH had, or their Forneys and Bogeys, or their Untion Freight "steam dummy" geared 0-4-0's or the like-wise boxed Climax. Those are all beautiful compared to anything owned by any other road. ;-)
Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************
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wrote:

I suppose that this would have a lot to do with where you were born, etc., but what some find ugly, others find beautiful. As most of the time I was anywhere near trains, and that ended when I was nine or so, most of what I saw were steam. Therefore, to ask me to do anything with a diesel is asking to be disappointed. Being only some thirty miles out of Milwaukee, Well,,,,
And no, I don't ever remember seeing the Hiawatha.
Dammit.
Rich
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"> Sorry, Froggy, but I have to concur with what NH historian (and author

Come on guys, be honest, compared with the average UK loco, the average North American loco, steam in plain ugly. :-)
Even the most stylish North American railway, the CPR, came a poor second to any of the stylish UK locos.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra /
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:52:45 -0800, "Roger T."

TO be very honest, I'm extremely glad that my railroad esthetic has not "developed" to that point. I tend to look at American locos as greyhounds, covering great distances in short times, and Brit locos as being dashounds trying to get out of the badger burrow.
;^))
Rich
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North American locos were and are hardly "greyhounds". They hardly covered great distances in short times, it was, and is, more like great distances in long times. North American train are, in general, plodingly slow.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra /
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:35:28 -0800, "Roger T."

While hauling tonnage unheard of in the UK. OVer distances covering several times the length of the UK, and that's just the first afternoon. With your mainlines comparing with out shortlines, I suppose some comparison might be made in that context.
But, I suppose that there is a point where one goes past just ugly to being so ugly it's interesting. This does not excuse your designers from stopping at "butt ugly".
But to be serious, esthetics seem to be more determined by what one is accustomed to seeing, and I haven't seen much from the wrong side of the Atlantic that I'd have to model.
Don't take anything seriously, it's a blooming hobby, not real life.
;^))
Rich
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