An open letter to Model Railroader about the BL niagara

"Richard" <


Speaking only of steam, the average North American loco only ran over one division, about 125 miles. Hardly "several times the length of the UK". And to do that usually took several hours.

Of course.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra /
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 08:54:44 -0800, "Roger T."

How many times would the length of the UK fit between Chicago and San Francisco, even if it was a straight line path? In these runs, swapping the loco instead of waiting while it's fueled makes more sense.

Depending on where it was. In thinly populated areas, such as our Great Plains, with few stops and slow downs, they did much better, and still do. Coming out of CHicago, until they've crossed the Mississippi would be a different matter.
But in terms of appearance, I would still rather be working with Pacifics and Mikado locos than anything from other parts of the world. All in what one is used to looking at. The brute strength of a Pacific or Mikado is apparent with the first glance.
Rich

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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:52:45 -0800, Roger T. wrote:

Naaaaah.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/wab/wab-s705amf.jpg
--
Steve

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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 00:56:09 -0800, Steve Caple

That's one impressive chimney, would go well on an ocean liner. Keith
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On 11/14/05 3:00 PM, in article snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com,

Probably not the stack at all, but a streamlined fairing surrounding it instead.
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:26:39 -0600, Brian Paul Ehni wrote:

The elephant ears and stack fairing were later additions in the short life of the seven Wabash P-1 class Hudsons (converted from Mikado boilers, built in the Decatur shops) - here's an as built shot:
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?//january99/01-01-99/ns1395.jpg
--
Steve

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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:22:10 -0800, Steve Caple

Thanks, I prefer that version. Keith
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Roger T. wrote:
> Come on guys, be honest, compared with the average UK loco, the > average North American loco, steam in plain ugly. :-)
Whatever you reckon, Roger. The average UK loco is an ancient little inside-cylindered 0-6-0. Maybe not ugly, but certainly plain... :-)
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NA locos have "Character", particularlly MILW models. Roger Aultman
Roger T. wrote:

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wrote:

To each his own Roger. While I like the look of many UK machines, I do not share your assessment of them as stylish beauties that are superior to North American machines. I prefer steam locos to look like such machines as the Great Northern's O-1 Mikados, Texas & Pacific's and CP's 2-10-4s, New York Central's L-3 4-8-2 and Milwaukee's S-3 4-8-4. The Battle of Britain class, for example, pales by comparison in both size and aesthetics to any of the ones I have listed. But - - - aesthetics is in the eye of the beholder. It is not my intention to try to say that you are in error, just that many of us have a different idea about what is aesthetically pleasing in a machine made for doing heavy work. I like horses, but the ones I like are the big, heavy, working breeds like Percherons and Clydes. I don't care much for Thoroughbreds, Arabians or Morgans. I see steam locos in the same way. The 2-6-6-6 Allegheny is a Clydesdale, while the Sir Nigel Gresley is a Morgan. Most UK machines are ponies by comparison to NA examples. They UK and NA are two different worlds that have vastly different requirements. The distance from Southampton to Glasgow is about half as far as from Vancouver to Calgary. In the one instance, you've traveled across almost the whole country, in the other you've only made a start.
Froggy,
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I'm talking strictly aesthetics here, not performance.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra /
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wrote:

Right, aesthetics. I think Jackson Pollack's art is a joke. Others will rant against me and call me a Phillistine for making such a comment. In fact, I much prefer Rene Magritte, Salvadore Dali or any of several of the Impressionists. Abstract art to me is like the rap music of art. I only experience it when I can't escape it. It all comes down to personal preference. BTW, I happen to like UK rail-stuff and am going to join up with a group here in Atlanta modeling it. My interest though, is in diesel-electric and straight electric machines, more specifically the 59 class and 66 class. Modern stuff. The group here is steam era, but that's fun too. Oh, I have developed a fondness for rail-things Australian as well. They emulated UK practice to a great degree, as I am sure you know. Froggy,
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Interesting mix of UK and North American practice. They generally favoured UK practice at first but seem to started to sway towards North American practice around the time of Big Mistake Two.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra /
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Roger T. wrote:
> >> Oh, I have developed a fondness for rail-things Australian as well. >> They emulated UK practice to a great degree, as I am sure you >> know. >> > Interesting mix of UK and North American practice. They generally > favoured UK practice at first but seem to started to sway towards > North American practice around the time of Big Mistake Two.
Various Australian railways started adopting North American practices *well* before WW2. More like the 1890s. :-)
All the best,
Mark.
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rant against

prefer Rene

Abstract art to me

here in

straight electric

group here

emulated UK

Froggy, While there are ascetically pleasing locomotives found around the world there is nothing that looks as good as a Mason Bogie or an early C-16. I like Dali too. While Monet doesn't really make a big impression on me the last Jackson Pollack rendering that I remember did. It was one with big orange blobs that reminded me of something that might have been vomited while on the move. I prefer the illustrators like Dean Cornwell or Boris Vallejo and a few surrealists. Bruce
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Gentlemen: Now, before I get fried, let me protest I am only going on aesthetics here.
Prominent and stylish British engines (in my opinion): The 'Castle' 4-6-0 Gresley A-1 4-6-2 Johnson's Midland singles Hamilton 4-4-0s (these last two being my particular favorites) (and many others, to be fair) Prominent and hideous British monstrosities (see above): The various Bulleid 'streamlined' Pacifics. The Gresley A4 The W1 water-tube 4-6-4. The streamlined 'Duchess' 4-6-2.
And now: Prominent and stylish American engines (see above): The PRR K4 (and many, many other Pacifics. It's just a nice looking configuration). The PRR T1 Willam Mason's 4-4-0's SP's rebuilt Atlantics.
Eminently hideous American engines (see above): All NYC streamlined steam engines except the Dreyfus Hudson. Everybody else's streamlined steam except the N&W and CP and MAYBE the Hiawatha 4-4-2's The D&H's L.F.Loree. The B&O George Emerson 4-4-4-4.
And in response to NYCfan back there...no, I'm not a gutless weasel, I'm a crank who has written my share of cranky letters to the newspaper, so I should know what they look like :) The fact is, there is a lot of interesting stuff in my chosen era than the General, the Jupiter, and the 119, but since those are famous, that's what we have available. We can always kitbash.
Cordially yours, Gerard P.
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<

Bulleid locomoitves were _Never_ "streamlined". In Bulleid's own words they were "airsmoothed". In the their as built form they were "OK" locomotives. The rebuilt ones were a vast improvement. However, their boilers' were excellent.

However, one does hold the world speed record for steam and they were as reliable as all heck. They also handled the longest non-stop steam hauled train in the world. The Flying Scotsman, the 392.7 miles between King's Cross and Edinburgh took about in 8 hours 15 minutes on seven tons of coal and no stops. Howmany North American trains ran 400 miles in a little of eight hours?

Ah, with upside-down bath tub "streamlining".
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra /
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They were that slow? Pity. <<grin>>

See: http://www.trainweb.org/kenrail/Midwest.speed.html
... and they did it WITH intermediate stops. It's a shame your Flying Scotsman couldn't keep up. ;)
Google "400 miles in 400 minutes"
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Roger T. wrote:

Well, I mentioned I was only judging by aesthetics this time. Even the enemies of this design would have to admit it did well considering all the innovations put in, and the class had a decent service life. Aesthetically speaking...ugh. As for the difference in terms, well, if I stop calling the Merchant Navy class streamlined then I will have to drop the Canadian Pacific's locomotives too.

Not too many, but the C&NW 400 was scheduled at 6:15 for about that distance. And it does feel unfair to criticize such an excellent class of engines, but as I said I am only going on aesthetics for this list...

Just like some of the NYC's pre-Dreyfus designs which have been, mercifully, almost forgotten.
Cordially yours, Gerard P.
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On 11/14/05 3:03 PM, in article snipped-for-privacy@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,

Actually, the MILW Hiawathas and the CB&Q Zephyrs (diesels) had similar schedules from Chicago to the Twin Cities.
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni
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