Hornby Pendolino

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:24:16 +0100, brushhead wrote:=
I would read this article before buying one Rob.
Fred X

"Fred X" wrote
I'm pretty sure I'm going to send all my stock back as not fit for purpose. Glad it's not just me that's critical of some of Hornby's recent efforts.
Fancy installing a DCC decoder that will not readily work with other DCC systems, especially when Hornby have claimed they are NMRA compliant!
John.

"Fred X" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@skynet.waggs:
... I'm confused, was he reviewing the model or the real thing? Pendolinos = "sh one t on wheels" as far as I'm concerned and that's even allowing for the fact that my expense account lets me travel fairly comfortably.
"Virgin ... never again" - my words but they're welcome to use them in their next advertising drive.

Hi Fred, Thanks for that. Looks like Hornby has a job on its hands there. Hope the new Grid is a better bet. Shame about the Pendo though, they had the opportunity to pick the ball when Dapol dropped it big time. Seems to make the Dapol version sound good.
Here's to future versions.
Regards,
Rob.
Fred X wrote:

One of the problems suggested in the article is a lack of powered axles.
If the lack of powered axles is the problem, and you really wanted an operational one of these, couldn't you tear out the Hornby mechanism and install something like this: would also have a bit of space to add whatever weight you want in order to increase pulling ability. Or, for that matter, throw a few under intermediate coaches so that several bogies are powered.
It does of course mean adding some bit of complexity to that DCC bit....
Of course, if non-powered power cars become available separately, this procedure probably becomes quite a bit less expensive as there is no Hornby mechanism to remove in the first place.

John Turner said the following on 27/03/2007 20:02:
This goes back to an earlier DCC thread regarding compatibility. Not that I have any inclination to buy one of these, but if I had a ZTC or Lenz DCC setup and I bought a Hornby Pendolino, surely I should expect it to be compatible? Especially if Hornby say it's NMRA compliant.
I think sending your stock back sounds a good business move!

wrote
Right, so when I buy my next car should I expect to have to replace the engine?
If Hornby can't (or more precisely won't) make a Pendolino power car which is capable of hauling a realistic length train then can stuff it.
If they can't fit an NMRA compliant &/or compatible decoder they can stuff it a second time.
John.

Quiet John, you'll wake Simon :o)
(kim)

"simon" wrote
So if the thing will not pull the correct number of coaches why model them?
Ask or not, I'm going to try and explain.
It seems that Hornby's promise of NMRA compliance is at variance with the reality. The 'standard' states that one should be able to use any manufacturers equipment with any others. The Hornby decoders do not seem to want to work with other manufacturers command centres.
Now that seem to me to be particularly stupid. Who is going to buy a Hornby decoder fitted loco if it will not work with that potential purchaser's existing equipment? Or are you suggesting that someone with a Lenz or other DCC system should also have to buy a Hornby one to make their train work?
John

Mostly I agree with this, but unless you are a collector of stationary models, enjoying the hobby means getting trains that will run.
Not buying something means it isn't going to run on your railway.
Unfortunately, there is enough low quality garbage out there that Northwest Short Line (the company that makes those neat little HO/OO repowering units) does a fair amount of business in the USA by making repowering kits. Certainly if possible it would be nice to send a nice message to the manufacturer, like you are doing, that cheaply made junk doesn't sell.
If, however, you must have a model, repowering resources are available.

The far more fundamental problem is that the Hornby decoder doesn't even work properly even with the Hornby select. The decoder does not support reading back from it, regardless of the manufacturer of the command station. The select was designed with this in mind and so doesn't give an error when there's no reply from the decoder. You can actually program the decoder with other system but you have to do it blind and ignore any error messages, assuming the system lets you do that.
MBQ

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com said the following on 29/03/2007 09:15:
It sounds to me that if was to consider going DCC, I should just forget the Hornby system altogether. Which means I wouldn't want to be buying a DCC Ready loco. (Sorry - Hornby's "DCC Ready" doesn't actually mean that. What do they call a loco with a chip installed? "Really DCC Ready"?)

A Hornby Loco that worked on other systems would then have to be "Really really DCC ready".
Regards, Greg.P.

I'll try again here.... Hornby made a business decision to produce a low cost pendalino for the train set market. Your complaing that it wont do what you want it to. But your requirements dont match hornby consider to be those of the trainset market. so you are not in the target customer base.
I'm also disappointed with it, its definately a missed opportunity - the prototype never had lms red, doesnt have a boiler, doesnt run on coal. But then hornby never promised it would. So not really complaining.
I hope someone will correct me but am fairly sure the standard doesnt say that at all. The standard defines how decoders and controllers interact, however there are more than one method and they are not all mandatory. Hornby have implemented a more recent method that some manufacturers controllers have yet to include. So Hornby are correct when they say they are NMRA compliant and so now the discussion may move on to how standards evolve and how important it is to implement legacy features and methods.
However this is a budget (very very cheap) decoder and again a business decision has been made as to who are the target customer base and what controllers they are likely to have.
Nope am suggesting that you get what you pay for. The current hornby decoder is a budget one that provides basic features wanted by people that pay budget prices. Hornby has stated that there will be a loco without a decoder in response to customer demand. Wasnt that good ! They made a desicion, customers said no, so hornby changed it !
Are you sure Lenz dont work with Hornby decoders ?
Cheers, Simon

How is this a fundamental problem, most manufacturers would call it a feature ! Is it a requirement of NMRA standards that a decoder should implement that feature, cos if not then it may be argued that the other controllers are incorrect in describing this as an error !
Its a low feature decoder at a low price for people that want that !
Cheers, Simon

"Paul Boyd" wrote
You might want to take a look at:- If it lives up to promise then this could be VERY good.
John.

"John Turner" wrote You might want to take a look at:- If it lives up to promise then this could be VERY good.
John.
My only reservation is that the plastic looks a little "tacky" in appearance, I just hope I'm proved wrong. Not sure why I get that feeling, maybe it is just the colour choice, or the clear plastic area (for the infra red beam) at the top ?
What are others first impression ?
Andy

"Andy Sollis CVMRD" wrote
Agreed, but as someone who has been using the extremely tacky-looking Lenz Compact for the last couple of years I've come to realise that visual appearances are not everything.
GBP90.00 for wireless control + DCC command centre with all the features listed sounds incredibly good value for money.
I like this bit:-
< quote >
E-Z Command Dynamis has been designed to be compliant to NMRA standards
and
E-Z Command Dynamis will work with DCC decoders that comply with NMRA DCC standards, including for example Digitrax, ESU, MRC, Gaugmaster, NCE, Lenz, Zimo, TCS, Soundtraxx, Hornby and ZTC.
< /quote >
With regard to the latter, I assume they assume that all of those manufacturers themselves comply with NMRA standards. ;-)
John.

"simon" wrote
Fine, BUT why go to the trouble of producing all of the coaches to enable a full train to be put together if their rather ineffective power unit won't move them and seems incapable of running at anything like a scale speed.
I don't see any mention in the 2007 catalogue to say this item is aimed purely at the trainset market, but I do see all of the add-on coaches listed. I suspect some people who have ordered a train pack and full rake of coaches will be rather disappointed.
I don't see any warning in their catalogue to this effect.
John.