If ...

you are talking about two different things here, 254 is a limit on the internal address - this does not have to have the same structure as the external one. So just because the external address has reserved bytes the internal one doesnt have to. As long as what goes out on the line is correct what is done inside does not. The choice of a 254 limit may be a marketing one and not technical. However the Elite has an excellent facility for upgrades.

'Elite' Unit - Operator's Manual - Page 4 Elite Unit - Fact File :- Using the Elitet's keypad locomotives can be addressed from 0 to 9999 ...

Not neccessarily it can reflect the number of units sold, the type of purchaser and I have to say quite a lot of unfair critisism. I do think theres a lot of snobbery amongst existing users who felt they were the elite ! Some may also be upset as the hornby system - the Elite that is - has an excellent range of functions including a PC interface at a very reasonable price.

the Select has been noted as showing differences in communication methods with some decoders but both the unit and the decoder are correct in terms of implementation of NMRA standard. Its a case of the standard allows for incompatibilities.

I dont know if the Select has been demonstrated (fairly) as being incompatible with other systems.

Cheers, Simon

Yes I know it is but cant be bothered to write 0-255 ie 256 addresses but as address zero is already allocated theres only 255 available, but Hornby have used another one for something else (perhaps 255 itself) so its 254 addresses every time.

But at least you were polite in your reply.

Cheers, Simon

It may not be relevant in this case but problems with a newly purchased decoder are sometimes due to it having been one of the ones from each batch that goes through the full testing proceedure which if not correctly completed by a 'factory reset' can leave it doing strange things. So before returning it, try a factory reset which although each manufacturer has a different method often involves putting a particular value into CV8 and 'should' be in the instructions for each decoder.

Alan

Ah, I stand corrected.

No, the decoders are *not* correct. They do not implement features that are *mandatory* for NMRA compliance. Readback of manufacturer and version ID CVs for one thing.

MBQ

I sincerely hope you prove me wrong but my guess is you'll get an excellent price for the first example, a pretty decent price for the second and and a derisory amount for the last three.

I recently lost out on an auction when an item reached my limit just five minutes before the end of bidding. eBay then notified me of a similar item being sold at a much better "Buy It Now" price which I opted for instead and am very pleased with the purchase.

(kim)

"kim" wrote

We'll see, but there appears to be an increasing demand for sound-fitted locos. One of the locos is now on eBay, one has already sold through the shop, and I'm tempted to hang on to one as a 'sound demonstrator' for shop customers.

John.

So to which manufacturer(s) decoder(s) was I referring ?

Cheers, Simon

I recently bought a Bachmann Loco which was DCC Ready, i'e' had a chip already fitted. I had a number of problems reprogramming the ID. I ended up doing the Factory Re-set...

I have a DigiTrax Zepher, so these things can happen with any combination which is why I try to stick with one brand.

I think this discussion about the Hornby system is interesting and although there appears to be a lot of negativity I would look at it if I had to start again. My father had a Zero One back in the eighties and I just remember the chips being a bit expense, but I was only 11 so am not full aware.

Hornby do make some excellent kit but as with most manufacturers have issues sometimes.

As to marketing, sounds abit like Microsoft... 8-)

Just my tuppence worth.

In message , Simon writes

Let's get our terminology right. If your loco had a chip already fitted it was "DCC on board". "DCC Ready" means it has a NMRA socket into which you can fit a chip of your choice.

I'd be very interested to find out what exactly is supposed to be the problem with the Hornby system. Googling on turns up assertions that it's no good, but actual description of problems, or indications as to whether any problems that do exist are related to other makes as well, are very few and far between. Is there a site anywhere that does an unbiased comparison? I ask as I'm intending going DCC (having had Zero I some years back), but being in the automotive world I'm very well aware that perceptions and reality about products vary rarely match in fact!

Cheers Richard

Well, omongst others, there are factual observations such as the first decoders not being NMRA compatible.

There are reports from people (who I trust and believe) of inter- operability problems with other manufacturers products where, in general, brand A DCC will always work with brand B, Putting aside obvious proprietary extensions such as railcomm.

There's the problem with reverse loop control. The Hornby command station cuts the power too quickly when it detects a short so reverse loop modules do not have time to reverse the polarity.

MBQ

I would suggest one trick to get round re-programming locos, locos "forgetting", etc:

Its "DecoderPro". Its a bit of free software (Windows or Mac or Linux) which allows you to set all the values on a DCC chip. You save those settings on the computer. So, when it goes wrong, you can put the loco back to its old configuration in seconds. It also makes experimentation with settings a doddle.

To make it work, you need a computer to DCC interface. There is one for the Zepher, the UK importer lists it. Or you get the stand-alone "Sprog" unit for about £50.

Once you've tried this method, you won't go back to putting in CV values via the punch-pad on any DCC control unit.

- Nigel

I think you are confusing binary encoding with Binary Coded Decimal as used in the very early days of computing (and still in some specific applications). If DCC standards are using BCD they have made a huge blunder, as binary addressing can be extended by simply making the addressing word wider 16-bit, 32 bit, 64 bit etc. - with well designed software and hardware extending the address range is trivial (indeed 4- bit address decoders that almost literaly plug together have been available for years).

Richard

Or it says a lot about *why* the decoders were on eBay, and even more about *why* they were going cheap - hardly a Hornbys fault if some one is getting rid of their duffers.

Richard

"(DCC) Decoder fitted" would be clearer. DCC itself is layout-wide.

Regards, Greg.P.

I've read quite a few comments on Hornby's new system, but haven't taken a lot of notice of the specifics. From memory the complaints fall into two categories:

- incompatibility with other manufacturers DCC decoders. As the UK market has a number of suppliers one is likely to purchase ones locos from several manufacturers so this could be a serious problem.

- No support of some expected features. When manufacturers design (low end) decoders they have to decide which of numerous possible features they will include in those decoders. Eg, US decoders will probably have "ditch lights" and "Mars lights" while on a UK Diesel you will want directional headlights and switchable tail-lights. Mars lights won't feature on your GWR14xx push-pull. Limited loco addresses won't matter until you want 17 locos on a 16 address CU.

If some feature you expected and bought DCC to obtain isn't there you're going to be miffed.

Regards, Greg.P.

DCC was designed by Lenz and released in 1978 - at that point it was pure binary. Since then it has been extended to (don't really know what I'm talking about here ;-) trinary, retaining the backward compatibility to the original but in doing so limiting many possibilities. As I understand it the top line US DCC systems can switch out some of the backward compatibility for greater potential. The system is still stuck with the original 9/4.5 kHz frequency which was the 1978 capability of reasonably priced transistors. A system designed today without the backward capability would use a much higher frequency, if only to make non-decodered loco control possible.

Regards, Greg.P.

You might like to qualify your question with a specific type of dcc product, otherwise the answers you get will refer to the budget controller - 'Select' or the budget chip.

Questions on the excellently priced, fully featured Elite controller will result in few, if any, real problems. Well there might be complaints about the colour.

Cheers, Simon

Or buy an Elite in the first place as that includes a USB connection !

Ho hum, time to nip out....

Cheers, Simon