philosophical topic: one loco, two motors

I'm pondering upgrades to yer proprietary Brit diesel (any diesel) and keep wondering whether a motor per power bogie is a good idea or not.

Now, I know the best of all worlds is the way the Yanks do it, with a big motor and flywheel in the middle, cardan shafts and a gear train to all axles in both bogies - it gives you true uniform drive. However, it seems easier to put a motor per bogie, driving either one worm gear and a chain of spur gears, or two outer axles with the middle one loose or dummy (as in the Airfix 31 I've just bought, on the one driven bogie, that is).

Wise men tell me this is a no-no, though, as the two motors, however they're wired - series, parallel, DCC controlled - will never run at the same speed and/or "fight" each other so one is always dragging the other so rather than getting twice the power, you're lucky to get even once the power from your lead motor.

Has anyone anecdote or technical reasons as to why this is, if so, and what can overcome it? The only two-motor diesel I've seen in action is the Deltic that roars - and I mean ROARS; in a 100' long shed you have to raise your voice to maintain a conversation as it approaches - round Roy Jackson's Retford, which has two Lima power bogies in one chassis. Is the noise I'm hearing partly the sound of overstressed gears in torment because wheelslip can't release the torque forces (it's well weighted too)? It seems daft to have a big diesel making traction on only six of twelve wheels, to the possible detriment of working a scale-length train, but apparently for ease of use it must be so because some law of physics says so.

Enlightenment please, before I start doing things to myWestern/Warship/31/whatever.

Tony Clarke

Reply to
Tony Clarke
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Not if they're in series.

Way back when, the (original American) Bachmann's GE 44 and 70 ton switchers had two motor bogies. It had all the problems you describe - until it was rewired to run in series instead of parallel. After which both motors started at the same time, and it was much more controllable with half the top speed, a lot more suitable for a switcher.

Incidentallt trams, EMUs and electric engines used to start in seried and go to parallel once they were moving,for exactly the same reason.

Reply to
Christopher A.Lee

The message from "Tony Clarke" contains these words:

In the loft I have a two-motor Triang TT D5500 diesel which, when the TT layout was in use, would out-haul any other loco on the line, except the metal-bodied pannier tanks. It never gave the impression of one motor out-performing the other, they seemed to be a matched pair. I can't remember how I wired the two motors together, sorry, but I've had the odd sleep in the last 35 years... [I once had two D5500s, but one decided to leave the baseboard in a hurry. The corpse donated its power-bogie to the other. D5500 = Cl.31?]

Reply to
David Jackson

and some sweet inertia, rolling over dead frogs

British Trix, in their heyday, used to offer a two-motored Western....

David

Reply to
chorleydnc

I find this claim a little strange, since people have been running double headed trains with powered locomotives for quite some time - even in the pre-DCC years. Operating two locomotives with motors and two motors in one locomotive isn't that different.

In fact, LGB has some locomotives on the market that come from the factory with two motors.

Reply to
gl4316

"Tony Clarke" wrote

Heljan have produced their O-scale Class 47 and Hymek models both with two motors. They seem to work extremely well.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

I modified several of the Hornby R8xx series units both 4 and 6 wheel bogies. Electrically things were fine (parallel operation) but I found problems with making the 2nd unit a happy fit in the modified chassis. This was due to the limited size of the bearing quadrants and the lack of lateral strength after removal of the spacer strut. Pulling power was indeed impressive (more than double) but of course the trains ,if not handled properly, began to topple on the curves when pulling hard. The newer X914 motors were best because of their secondary pick-ups on the tyred wheels ( via the flanges). The only time non syncronous operations gave a problem was when using push & pull power cars on an HST 125.

Regards

Peter A Montarlot

Reply to
Sailor

A friend used to have a couple of Triang-Hornby Hymeks which he'd fitted with double power bogies- they would pull the side off a house (or at least

40 wagons on a steeply-graded and sharply curved garden line). The major problem with them was that the soft-iron wheels would develop a U-shaped profile. As regards the more recent Hornby/Lima bogies- the best means of ensuring these pivot freely is to do a cut and shut job on a couple of underframes. The rubber tyres are a bit of a nuisance when it comes to arranging pick-ups, however. The ideal, which I've done on a few locos, is to use the new-generation centre motors and bogie assemblies from the latest Hornby/Bachmann offerings within a modified chassis- these are available from East Kent Models, amongst others. Brian
Reply to
BH Williams

Adding weights to the car floors will help that problem. It doesn't effect the rolling resistance as much as you might think.

Reply to
gl4316

Peter, I have a rather scholarly article in French from a mag about rolling resistance etc- would a copy be useful? Brian

Reply to
BH Williams

or

Thanks for the offer Brian but I gave up DE's for the bigger challenge of Steam profile. Whereas I can tow long trains my stations are limited to 5 cars effectively and I have to do a Carstairs Junction manoeuvre to split things up for docking! I have come to realise that I run trains only in order to gloat over my latest re-arrangement or electrical success. The Dogs share the blame otherwise. (In any case my fort=E9 is electro-mechanical with a special interest in Dynamics).

Reply to
Sailor

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