Radii of Peco Streamline Code 75 curved points

As I think I may have mentioned here before, I am designing a layout for a friend based on the S&DJR from the 1950 - 1960 period, using as a
basis a plan that was in the Toddler from the early 1990's.
The layout is being designed on a now-out-of-date CAD program called 3DRailroad, from a mob called Abracadata. It has a library of Peco products, but does not include the curved points from the Code 75 range. My friend has asked for a minimum radious of about 36" on the main line. If anyone can tell me what the radii, both outer and inner are, for these points, I will at least indicate their presence via a text box, in the knowledge that they do meet his design requirements.
I have been to the Peco site (how clunky is that!) but cant find the info I need there. If anybody can provide the info, they will have not only my eternal thanks, but the comforting knowledge that, in a 10 metre by 6 metre shed in an Australian country town, the S&DJR shall live again!
Thanks in advance
Steve Newcastle NSW Aust
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Steve wrote:

If you can, plot the straight through track and the end of the curved track - you know the length from the catalogue, maximum divergence in m (26mm from memory) and the angle of divergence (again 12 degrees). The curve won't be a perfect single radius between those points, hence no quoted radius.
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Greg Procter wrote:

My Peco catalog does quote "nominal" radii for points: small -- 24" medium -- 36" large -- 60"
For the curved points the radii are 60" outside and 30" inside
Y points: small -- 24" large -- 72"
Mark Thornton
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Mark Thornton wrote:

To Greg and Mark
Thank you very much for your assistance here - looks like I will be able to use them in the plan.
Steve
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A little trigonometry will show that the nominal radii are well off reality.
The large radius turnout, for example, is very close to 48 inch radius and current production has the diverging road as a curve which suits many modellers.
The curved turnouts are the exception to the standard 12 degree Vee for Peco. The radii are very close to the stated 30 and 60 inches and the angle of the Vee is approximately 9 degrees.
The best thing to do is to get a copy of the plans that Peco distribute and check the design full size before purchasing the turnouts themselves.
--
Bill Campbell

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Bill Campbell wrote:

My prototype (DRG) used mainline turnouts with constant curves including the frog.

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Mark Thornton wrote:

Where 3 different radii of turnouts have the same outgoing spacings and angled tracks the effective radii cannot be different. The sharpness of divergence varies, but you can't each plot a 2', 3' and 5' curve of 12 degrees from the through track and come up with the configurations of Peco turnouts.

I don't have one of these, but in all likelyhood one can overlay 30" and 60" curves to represent Peco curved turnouts.

Again, I haven't got those. I'd imagine for a CAD library plotting the end points and angles would be more accurate than marking two curves of the claimed radii.
For DSP, SSP and crossings, track lengths and angles would give the closest representation.
Regards, Greg.P.
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Hi Greg,
> I'd imagine for a CAD library plotting the end points > and angles would be more accurate than marking > two curves of the claimed radii.
Templot data files for Peco Large and Small radius turnouts can be downloaded from (see screenshots):
http://db.templot.info/index.php?action=view&view=entry&entryidY
http://db.templot.info/index.php?action=view&view=entry&entryidX
Loading them into Templot will display the full geometry -- which bears no resemblance to any known prototype.
regards,
Martin. --------- http://www.templot.com
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Martin Wynne wrote:

'No known prototype' - that matches many model railway layouts! ;-)
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I am getting so fed up with Peco points that I have started experimenting with the productgs of Shinohara of Japan.
--
Jane
OO and DCC in the garden
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Jane Sullivan wrote:

Hi,
Would you know Shinohara's website address or what their name is in Japan as I can't find a Japanese reference to the products?
Thanks
Ezra
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Hi, Ezra
Sorry. I would assume that their name would be spelt in Japanese characters on a Japanese website. Maybe there is someone else in this newsgroup who might know. I did a google search for Shinohara a couple of weeks ago, and the results were not too useful, I'm afraid.
I get my supplies in the UK from Scale-Link Ltd., see http://www.scalelink.co.uk /
The same stuff in code 83 is sold in the US under the Walthers name, and Walthers does the code 100 and code 70 stuff under Shinohara's name, see http://www.walthers.com / Can you obtain supplies from Walthers in Australia?
There are 2 sets of code 83 track: one is "DCC ready" and the other isn't (although it works with DCC). This basically involves how the rails are connected electrically to each other: with the DCC ones the frog is a small unit insulated from the closure rails (which are bonded to the adjacent stock rails) and the rails beyond the frog unit are bonded to the appropriate closure rail, so I suppose the points could be used as dead-frog. With the non-DCC ones, both closure rails, the frog and the rails beyond the frog are all bonded together, so there could be a short between the open point-blade and its neighbouring stock rail. Walthers is in the process of switching from the non-DCC to the DCC line, so their reference book warns you that you might get the old non-DCC stuff. The code 70 and 100 stuff is non-DCC.
Make sure you order the right ones.
--
Jane
OO and DCC in the garden
  Click to see the full signature.
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Ezra Kowadlo wrote:

Shinohara started around 1950, (just after WWII) apparently a factory in a boxroom above a tiny shop somewhere in Tokyo. In all probability the founder will have long since retired and perhaps even the second generation will also. If the name doesn't show up to a Google search then perhaps the firm has merged with some other hobby materials producer.
Regards, Greg.P.
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Greg Procter wrote:

Thanks for the replies. Shinohara is available in Australia. I was asking because my son will be in Japan for two months.
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Any of the major model railway shops in the big Japanese cities would carry Shinohara track. Tenshodo, Models Imon and KTM in Tokyo are all such shops. Imon has I think a website in English, Tenshodo probably, I'm not sure about KTM. Regards, Bill.
writes

and
of
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It's possible that HO might not be readily available in Japan, because of the constraints on space that people have to live with, so layouts tend to be N gauge.
--
Jane
OO and DCC in the garden
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Greg Procter wrote:

They do say "nominal". I think the point is to indicate what you can expect in terms of running stock through them and appearance rather than allowing you to compute the geometry for track planning software.
Mark Thornton
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Mark Thornton wrote:

Well I now have two options as I see it. Plan A is to generate my own template for these points, but to do that the software needs to know:
Outside (broader route) Radius (call that R1) Angle away from straight (call that A1) Offset from straight at end of length (call that O1) Length from tiebar to end of outer track (call that L1)
and for the inner route
Inner radius (call that R2) Angle away from straight (call that A2) Offset from straight at end of track (call that O2) and, length of inner route start until end of inner track (yep, you guessed it, L2)
All this gets a bit complex unless someone has a point that they can measure - actually, both points, L and R, unless they are mirror images. I think I will go with Plan B and ask friend to buy a pair of them then scan them and send them to me. But if anyone has Plan A covered, I will still be delighted to accept that! :)
Thanks and Regards
Steve
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Steve wrote:

Send a label from a piece of code 75 streamline track to Peco with a self addressed stamped A4 envelope and they will send you a complete set of photo copies of their code 75 points. They also intend putting them on their web site at some point.
I have scanned those they sent me (actually for the code 100 I was using at the time).
Mark Thornton
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Mark Thornton wrote:

According to my measurements the Peco catalog is not close when it comes to the "nominal" large radius of the curved turnout. Its closer to 1800mm, 72"
Terry Flynn
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