sparking/electrical problem with Peco points

Elliott Cowton · 2006-03-20T08:28:37+00:00

Hi allHere's a baffling little problem for us to chew over. We have had Sobertonout at the TRPS Show in Ferneham Hall yesterday and the fiddle yard wasright at the back of the stage which was dimly lit. This allowed me to seethe full extent of a problem we have known about for a couple of months, buthas obviously been going on for quite a while.The problem we are seeing is that when trains cross any pointwork (thethroats of the fiddle yard are probably the best example) we are seeingsparking, almost as if we were looking at electrical units sparking overgaps in the third rail. The points are all Peco Streamline. The stockinvolved seems to be almost anything and everything; Bachmann, Hornby, theodd re-wheeled Lima, steam and diesel outline.To begin with people were blaming old style metal tension lock couplersshorting from live chassis to frog, but in the dim light yesterday I wasable to see the true nature and full extent of the problem (and examine thedamage that is being done). This sparking seems to be happening towards thetips of the point blades and frankly a couple of the blades I looked atought to be changed so this has obviously been going on for a long time. Iam guessing that there is corresponding damage to the wheels as well but sofar I have not been able to find any on my stock.As far as I am aware the points are all insulfrog and the wiring of thepoints is totally "standard" but the evidence seems to suggest that somehowthe point blades are actually at a different potential to the adjoiningstock rails, and that the inner flange face of any slightly out of gaugewheels are managing to bridge the gap thus causing the sparks to fly (no, Ididn't have a chance to get the meter out and check but I plan to the nexttime the layout is out). Also, we are not using any fancy electronics suchas HF track cleaners.Question: has anyone encountered similar problems and can they point me inthe right direction to find a cause?Thanks in advance.Elliott

Mar 20, 2006 62 Replies

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NSWGR 20 years ago

The Peco Electrofrog Turnouts out of the box work electrically because the point throw is way over scale to avoid shorting, therefore they are correctly wired if you run the correctly gauged wheels through them (around 14.4mm). Old Triang Hornby wheels would probably give trouble though. The NSW AMRA layout uses numerous Electrofrog Peco Turnouts, which have not been rewired (turn up to the open day and see for yourself). It's a non prototype specific layout and members run all sorts of wheels on this layout without electrical problems. I have actually seen more shorting from the frog area of Peco Insulfrog turnouts. Another reason to avoid Peco Insulfrog turnouts. Graham, there is more than one to wire live frog turnouts, the method you and I use is the better way to go but it is not necessary to convert Peco turnouts if you use DC and if your models are of recent manufacture they are OK for DCC as well.

Terry Flynn

formatting link

HO wagon weight and locomotive tractive effort estimates

DC control circuit diagrams

HO scale track and wheel standards

Any scale track standard and wheel spread sheet

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NSWGR 20 years ago

I have been wiring and operating DC layouts using the above method for about 30 years and never have had the problem you described unless the operator selects the wrong route. A problem that cannot be eliminated with any simple system. The only difference is with your panel you need to throw 2 switches to get a model going for a particular track, I use only one. Simpler to make and use, similar to many prototypes, and less chance of forgetting to throw the extra switch.

Terry Flynn

formatting link

HO wagon weight and locomotive tractive effort estimates

DC control circuit diagrams

HO scale track and wheel standards

Any scale track standard and wheel spread sheet

Vote

Kevin Martin 20 years ago

Something else comes to mind that no one else has asked/commented on.

Are there any other symptoms like trains stalling/hestitating which could be indicating dirty wheels/track. Of course if you are running multiple headed trains one loco could be stopping running momentarily, until the other locos push it across. Arcing to me is more likely to be caused by an open circuit rather than short circuits.

Perhaps you could advise us of any other symptoms.

Kevin Martin

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