OK...so now I know the answer to the radius question, here's the next one...
We want to switch to DCC, but I am really unsure which brand to go with. Assuming that it's best to stick with a single make of controller and decoders once you've decided which to go with...
- Can you fit any decoder brand...i.e. will a Hornby decoder fit in a Bachmann loco or vice versa?
- Is any brand "better" than the others?
- are there any down-sides to doing this, apart from initial cost of the controller and decoders?
theyre all waiting for the first answer then - pow ! A lot depends on how much you want to spend and how you want to play with it.
Do you want all locos chipped or just a few. Do you want to run 10 locos at once or 2. Do you want full function decoders - control lights, sound etc etc Or a basic one - just speed, direction, acceleration etc. Do you want top class decoders (£15-20) or budget (£8) Do you want a computer connection for computer control ? Do you want accessories eg points under DCC ? Are you buying over the internet, local box shifter or proper model shop ?
Theres a start.
Hornby will be my answer but you should get other ones.
I guess for such a small layout, for me the question would be "why?"
Several on-off switches and a break in one rail to interrupt the electric current is enough to turn sections of the layout on and off. This allows several locomotives to be on the layout at the same time and only one respond to the controller.
There are valid reasons to go with DCC, but for me, for a small layout, I would rather stick with good old fashioned DC and invest the money in equipment and details of that small layout.
If that's the way you want to go, then that is your choice. I only want to make sure that you consider what it is that you want to do before you decide to take that step. You had indicated in your previous post that cost was an issue, and the extra price per locomotive for DCC, to me, doesn't make sense on such a small layout.
Yes (probably some exceptions, but if they are, they don't meet the DCC standard).
Hard question. For decoders, certain types control certain models better. Certain decoders control certain motors slightly better. Certain decoders will fit in the space in a particular locomotive more easily. For my modelling (wierd by most standards), CT Electronik make the best decoders.
There are bugs/errors which can happen. Talking to others with larger loco fleets, sometimes a loco will take it into itself to mangle its decoder settings. Therefore it speeds things no end to have a copy of DecoderPro (free) and an interface from Computer to programming track (eg. £50 for Sprog) to reset the programming of a loco. DecoderPro is probably the easiest way to setup decoder settings.
Momentary short circuits will shut down a DCC system. On an analogue system its possible to have a momentary short circuit. Typical one is a flange shorting across on a turnout crossing. This might cause a stutter on analogue. On DCC this will cause the system to shut down, and, unless you have means to isolate bits of the layout, identifying the failure will be quite hard. The solution is to make sure such shorts won't happen; correct wiring of turnouts, correct gapping in turnout rails, correct back-to-back and wheel flange sizes.
Don't buy a cheap non-expandable base system. That rules out Hornby, possibly Bachmann (don't know much about their new entry level system).
Think the cheapest expandable system is the Digitrax one at about £140 in the UK. The Roco LocoMaus can be a good buy as it is usable as a handset on a replacement larger base station.
Choose your system on the basis of the control handsets. Do they do all you need ? Do the buttons fall to hand well. Personally, I find the US designed handsets and control boxes to be an ergonomic nightmare, so even though they are cheaper than European makers, I am not fond of them. Don't assume that rotary knobs are best just because you used a rotary knob on analogue (at least if considering a Lenz 90 or 100 set, make sure you've tried both handsets for more than five minutes). Check out the less obvious handsets, such as the Roco and Uhlenbrock Daisy (don't know of a UK dealer for them).
Big(ish) decision is which communication network to use between control components. Lenz is ExpressNet and Digitrax is LocoNet. This dictates the additional handsets you can fit onto the layout. Various other makers are either ExpressNet or LocoNet (eg. Uhlenbrock is LocoNet, whereas Roco is ExpressNet).
Probably only a consideration with a large layout which favours Loconet (type of networking used if interested) whilst expressnet seems to be supported by more manufacturers.
That certainly should not be the case, differing systems which are NMRA compliant should all work together.
Can I suggest that you contact your local model railway club and see if they are using any DCC systems, and if so go along and ask for a demonstration. Alternatively ask on here (or other similar forums) for individual users in your area and ask if you can see what they are using and whether it suits your needs.
I agree that network performance only matters on big or very complicated layouts. Then you get into arguments about which network is more capable. I've seen arguments advanced both ways, though there is probably more English language experience with LocoNet from larger US layouts
But for those of us with more "normal for the UK" sized layouts, the bus/network only matters if you wish to mix & match handsets from different makers, as I indicated above.
The size of layout does not matter. DCC gives you authentic working. You cannot MU or double head or bank with DC.Constant lighting is a non-starter with DC. With all that wiring DC is just outdated. regards, Steve
After all the reported issues with the Hornby DCC system I struggle to see how it can be recommended above the many other alternatives that are 'out there'. I have a simple system and use a Lenz Compact and have found it perfectly adequate for my needs. If I was looking for something more fully featured the bigger Lenz sets are excellent but pricey, but I think I would wait to see how Bachmann's Dynamis system turns out.
Oh, sorry Simon, I hadn't noticed it was you. That explains the 'Hornby tinted spectacles' then! :-)
For a beginner why not use the NCE powercab...its about 100GBP, includes everything in one box to get started, will run 2-4 locos at one time and can be upgraded/enlarged if future needs require. A far better system than Hornby by far. Cheers Gene
- If you're trying for intensive operation on a 4'x6' layout then DCC is the way to go.
- If you're trying to reproduce Kings Cross then DCC is the way to go.
- If you're running staging yard to station then DC is simpler and cheaper.
DCC gives you one operator to one train, which is not neccessarily what modellers want to portray.
You can, but there are some major limitations with DC.
Hmmm, I've been doing that for the last thirty years - why didn't someone tell me it was impossible????
If you're going to block signal your layout then the wiring has to be there anyway.
Cab control has to be built by the layout builder vs DCC you pay someone loads of money to hand you "black boxes" that need fitting, fail regularly and go out of date at about 5 year intervals.
Ha, when I first read the spec of the Elite - esp computer interface - at the price of around £100, i decided thats it want one. Since then have read no facts to change my opinion. Since actually getting one have not encountered any problem to regret the decision.
Didnt get one just cos Elite is from Hornby - although that is a bonus.
By all means wait for Bachmann, then wait for the next model that someones announced, then wait for ....godot perhaps. Me ? I'm playing already.
I built one of those, my first electronics project using valves - it worked quite well but the lamp brightness varied with the total load. Later I discovered by accident that it worked quite well with only one of the two output wires attached, and then that it would light a bulb held near the unit (without wires) and then that the voltage rating didn't seem to matter - I got a bit worried and turned it off. I built a replacement using transistors but it was expensive and of limited power.
Now I use PWM controllers with a voltage of under or over 15 volts. Each lighted item of rolling stock has a rectifier, capacitor, voltage regulator and zener diode so that the light bulbs get 5 volts. With the pulse voltage below 15 volts the coach lights are off, over 15 volts and the lights are on. Without the zener the lights are on all the time.
I'm in the throws of building just such a layout and didn't even consider analogue control, partly I suppose because most of my locos are already DCC chipped, but also because I want operation to be as authentic as possible. I don't see how wiring the layout for DC operation can be any simpler than for digital.
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