Newbie wondering about licensing costs...

| "Average Joe Modeler" wouldn't be flying anything if the AMA hadn't | been there to secure our frequencies.

This is *pure* conjecture. We do not know what would have happened if the AMA hadn't pushed for and defended our current spectrum allocation.

Certainly, I don't think the AMA has really cared about the 27mhz and

(Yes, 49mhz doesn't allow much power. But with some minor receivenr improvements it could be used for small park fliers. I certainly wouldn't trust anything big and dangerous to it, however. 27mhz is a bit dangerous too ...)

Even the 900mhz, 2.4ghz and 4.8ghz bands could be used to control R/C planes!

If the 72mhz/75mhz bands disappeared tomorrow, I certainly wouldn't stop flying (I'd use another band.) But perhaps I'm not `Average Joe Modeler' :)

| Now they are in danger again.

Again implies that there were out of danger at some point! Spectrum = money, both for the FCC and many commercial entities out there, and people are always eyeballing the R/C and ham bands.

| Read about Powell, the FCC, and the scarcity of frequencies for the | police, firefighters, EMTs, etc., etc.

I was unaware that the police, firefighters, EMTs, etc. were short of frequencies. Could you provide a source?

I *am* aware that they're having interference problems, with cell phone/pager towers causing `dead spots'. Here's a citation --

Of course, spread spectrum could save us all! :)

| You can bet the AMA will be there for us again.

Yes, the AMA does fight the good fight with regards to our frequencies, and I'm glad they do. But I don't believe that they are single handedly responsible for saving the hobby.

| IMHO, that alone is well worth the dues add the insurance and it's | a no brainer.

To you, maybe. To others, it's a tough decision.

If it weren't for the ACLU, you'd probably not have several freedoms that you hold dear. Are you a member? Is that a no-brainer too?

The AMA is currently trying to secure 5 additional frequencies in the 27 MHz band. Actually, they are spending a lot of effort on the "problem?" of inexpensive park flyer's. Not the kind we typically fly, but the type marketed at Toys R Us, etc.

And, you are right, since we do not have a "Wayback" machine, we will never know what course the situation with RC frequencies might have taken without the AMA. I, for one, will accept what the AMA (that's us, remember) did as "good" and enjoy it.

We are certainly not out there alone in our concern about BPL. Many other groups join us in our concerns. Let's just hope that BPL can be implemented for good of the whole while technology takes care of our concerns about interference.

Our political clout, such as it is, is directly related to the size of the organization. When one considers whether to join the AMA, that should also be taken into account.

Hmmm. Your assertion about the ACLU is another case where only the "Wayback" machine would find the truth of your statement. :)

JR

Average Joe AMA'er thinks nothing would have happened had the AMA not done it. He obviously has little faith in his fellow modelers and the hobby/industry at large.

The Average Joe has it figured out correctly, in this case.

I cannot understand why anyone would be hostile toward an organization that is dedicated to serving the modeler. It makes no sense.

If you do not like the current administration, vote them out of office and replace them with someone you do like.

Lead - follow - or get the farg out of the way.

Ed Cregger

Perhaps it is merely a difference in personalities, my friend. While I am not happy with everything that our government does, I am of the opinion that many of government's problems are caused by the "good old boys" that infest its buildings, not the institution itself.

I feel the same way about the AMA, although I haven't been closely involved enough of late to become sufficiently irritated to pay attention.

The AMA is not a religion to me. The Lord knows that I have worn the "outlaw" label many times during the last forty plus years. I just can't see criticizing something with no prospect of an improvement in the end. It is a waste of time and energy. It upsets people for no reason and is counter productive.

Mind numbed? Perhaps. Life has its little mercies.

Ed Cregger

competition!

DITTO!

Perhaps the hobby DOES exist because of one organization. TheAMA, as you say, is the only game in town. Which other "game" would come to our defense over such things as frequency allocation? And don't say the radio manufacturers. Most of them are tiny subsidiaries of larger corporations that could disappear in a minute. Face it, we are small change in the grand scheme of things and without a strong national organization tied to the larger international one (FAI), we coule be easily pushed aside. Look what happened to a lot of budgets when the Homeland Security Administration was formed. Didn't we already have a Department of DEFENSE? More like a Department of OFFENSE lately.

Kevin

Let's dig through the allegations.

I'm not real fond of the national flying site. Having said that, it has done better as an investment than putting the money into bonds or stock over the last couple of years. The AMA DOES need the reserves in order to get insurance. Remember that we are self insured for the first $250,000 of each claim. The insurance companies insist that we are an organization that will be around for a while in order to insure us.

As of July 1 membership was running 2 percent behind the previous year. Was it due to the dues increase, lost fields and clubs or, just maybe, the state of the economy? The membership year is not over and time will tell the tale.

The AMA has just redefined the definition of a model in order to avoid potential conflicts with the FAA. Under the new definition UAV's MAY be prohibited. That issue is not clear at this point.

As to who paid DB's way? I can only tell you this. He has the highest travel budget in the AMA. Last year (including a failed attempt by Maynard, BTW) he turned back all of it except $3000. The largest of the VP's budgets is about $15000 per year, so you figure it out.

I don't have a crystal ball, so I can't argue about what might have been. We are limited to discussing what is.

On the point of the AMA needing members, your correct, but, the point you miss is that the AMA is us... or to you them.

Is the AMA perfect? In my opinion, no. But it ain't bad.

Oh... and you are certainly welcome to ignore our discussions about AMA issues and limit yourself to other topics in this forum.

JR

competition!

But you said it yourself Ed. "It upsets people for no reason and is counter productive."

And at the same time you admit not being "closely involved enough of late to become sufficiently irritated to pay attention."

I contend it does have a purpose. To get people to start thinking again. And that is all I have ever tried to do.

Since the AMA has been here, we don't know. Care to find out though?

Then when are we going to get a strong national organization? Be it the AMA or someone else?

Now who brought this up? Certainly not I! But if you're refering to the value of the property? Yeah! Probably! But my portfolio is still up in spite of the last few years. It's all a question of timing!

Sure it does but, this is not the only insurance option. SFA and UMA both provided coverage equal to that of AMA without such a "deductable". But without this deductable, every insurable event would be reportable to the insurance company. Wonder what that would do to the actuary tables?

But the AMA is now just getting around to looking at alternative insurance coverages. And what drove them to this? Money! The bottom line and the crisis they claim to be in. Not saying they are or not, I haven't looked at the books and can't say for sure.

The insurance companies insist they get paid first and up front. They desire an organization since they realize the greatest profit for them is in that design. They don't care which organization. I gurantee you, if some other group came along offering them more money, they'd jump!

It seems to me that everytime there's some kind of crisis, the membership runs behind the previous year. Hmmmmm! But no one ever bothers to look at other forms of recreation to see how they're doing for comparison.

I am well aware of this situation. As a member of AVUSI, I stay rather informed from the UAV side of things.

Says a lot about DB's dedication. But I myself really don't care who payed it. My point was that no one had mentioned it yet. Which surprised me. Now had McNeil been over there with DB (or alone), there would have been demands for their heads without ever seeing the books on it. Funny how the membership picks and chooses like that. There's a word for that kind of person!

Agreed! You're one of the few who don't make such claims. But many, when they see the AMA questioned, are the first to jump on such bandwagons and declare, "we wouldn't have this or that without the AMA!" (Time to bow towards Muncie again). My question is as always, how do they know?

Agreed again. I just wish more here understood that concept. Many, perhaps most don't!

Then isn't it time a great many of "us" get off our dead hind quarters and actually do something? Or would that require effort on the members ever spreading part?

Never said otherwise. In fact, I have often said the AMA is the best option and in the best position to do the most for the hobby and industry. I just don't see them doing much. Take flying sites. They're finally waking up to the concept of more site equals more members equals more revenue. Something I've been harping on for numerous years now. The deeper we go into this, the more I could say "I told you so!"

For the most part I will. But I'll stick around enough for the occasional "I told you so".

To your credit JR, you'll at least discuss this. Unlike many here.