Re: [FA] Airtronics Aquila Standard Class R/C Sailplane Kit

Yep. He almost made it sound like that firebird was an acceptable substitute, too.

Here goes again.... So it won't be hijacked...

BF _______________________________

[FA] Airtronics Aquila Standard Class R/C Sailplane Kit

Complete full kit that is new in the box with no reserve.

Like it wasn't spam the first time?!?

Nope, it is SPAM. This isn't a forsale group. I usually dont say anything but I was displeased with Bruces sleasy excuse for posting it again.

Looking at Ebay under Toys & Hobbies > Radio Control > Air, there are 10880 items. Should there be 11000 posts to this group per week as well? Hmm, maybe some good samaritan should utilize hipcrime to help automate the ebay->usenet dump. Then would it be spam? It would still be "relevent" according to you.

| Nope, it is SPAM. This isn't a forsale group. I usually dont say | anything but I was displeased with Bruces sleasy excuse for posting | it again.

You may not like it, but people have been posting things for sale here since the group was formed. And the same goes for other similar groups.

The group doesn't have a formal charter, but here's the closest thing to it, from ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/control/rec/rec.models.rc.air.gz :

rec.models.rc.air is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for creation by 282:54 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 17 Aug 1995.

For your newsgroups file: rec.models.rc.air RC controlled air models.

The charter, culled from the call for votes:

The rec.models.rc.air newsgroup will provide a place to disseminate reports, discussions, ask questions and provide information related to radio control of air based items including related items for individual sale.

Looks like items for sale ARE allowed here.

But if you want to tilt at windmills, go ahead, claim that selling items here is prohibited. Though you really did miss your chance -- you should have spoken up in 1995, and have a formal charter drawn up then that prohibited selling items here. Though I doubt you would have gotten much support, as I doubt you'd get much support now for the same idea.

| Looking at Ebay under Toys & Hobbies > Radio Control > Air, there | are 10880 items. Should there be 11000 posts to this group per week | as well? Hmm, maybe some good samaritan should utilize hipcrime to | help automate the ebay->usenet dump. Then would it be spam? It | would still be "relevent" according to you.

Nice slipperly slope argument.

Counter example: austin.forsale *is* a forsale group, but would be made utterly useless if the local Wal-Mart wanted to post every item for sale every week. (Fortunately, the austin.forsale charter and common sense prohibits that. And it's fortunate that places like Tower Hobbies know better than that too.)

But I'll tell you what. You go ahead and use Hipcrime to prove your point, and we'll see how fast your posting account can go bye-bye.

OB R/C related :

Alas, here in Austin, Texas, the weather so far this year has been pretty drippy and such -- not good flying weather. I did go out sloping at the Murchinson Middle School 12/31, but the wind was pretty mediocre.

Hopefully things will improve soon :)

When someone repeatedly posts the same auction, it is spam, no?

Per the rec.models.rc faq (in lieu of a specific subgroup charter) advertising is a grey area, so now you know where I stand on the issue. If you wanted to keep people from complaining about spam then you should have said something in '95 ;) That'd be an interesting entry.

From: "Doug McLaren"

I don't agree that was a spam post. It is common practice to post auction notes here and so long as it is on-topic I've never known anyone to have an issue with it. The OP correctly put "FA" in the title so if you object to reading such posts then a simple thread filter will sort you out.

I agree he did a number of things right in the original post. But using the excuse that his thread was "hijacked" to post it again was what really cheesed me. We don't "own" threads AFAIK.

Also note that it is "common practice" to spam. And since this was argueably crossposted from ebay to here then you could also make the case that this is another form of spam.

No one has yet said that it would be improper to use this group for every rc air item on ebay. Spam is a slippery slope indeed, you should see my junk email folder. If you want to allow some then you have to allow all 11000 per week, and most of them probably wont put [FA] in the title. And since it is free they will post it repeatedly. Where do YOU draw the line on what is spam?

It would be better than listening to OT stuff and your crap. mk

at Ebay under Toys & Hobbies > Radio Control > Air, there are 10880

| When someone repeatedly posts the same auction, it is spam, no?

By repeatedly, you mean twice, right?

Though you did claim that the _first_ time was spam too, so maybe it doesn't have to be repeatedly at all. | Per the rec.models.rc faq

Per the FAQ of _another_ (but similar) group ... gotcha. Yes, the FAQ of another group is certainly more relevant to this group than the charter of this group.

| (in lieu of a specific subgroup charter)

... which we _do_ have for this group, though it's a bit bare. But bare or not, it does cover this particular issue.

| advertising is a grey area, so now you know where I stand on the | issue.

We already knew where you stood on the issue ...

You've claimed that this is not a forsale group. (Which is somewhat true -- it's not a *.forsale group anyways.)

You've claimed that offering anything for sale here is spam. Well, you won't find much support for that claim. Sure, if somebody offers h3rbal V1agra for sale here and fifty other groups, we'll all call that spam. But when an individual posts an R/C plane for sale here, nobody's going to call that spam (except maybe you.) Even when the person does so again because he (mistakenly) feels that his original post has been somehow hijacked.

| If you wanted to keep people from complaining about spam then you | should have said something in '95 ;) That'd be an interesting entry.

Spam was a problem in 1995, both in email and Usenet. (C&S did their big thing in 1994, if you don't remember.) No time travel required (if that's what you were implying.) (And yes, I was active on Usenet back then.)

Sorry, but this group has allowed on-topic `for sale' posts since it's inception. Just because you call that `spam', that doesn't mean that everybody else is going to stop.

Now, you could try to create an official charter (rather than a paragraph from the CVV) and have it voted upon and ratified, etc. but I don't see the regulars voting on something that prohibits selling something here.

| From: "Doug McLaren" |

resembling? outdated gibberish? cute.

Ob R/C related:

Still want to go out flying this year, but it's still drippy. I might have to go fly anyways -- a little drizzle isn't going to hurt me.

| But using the excuse that his thread was "hijacked" to post it again | was what really cheesed me. We don't "own" threads AFAIK.

It struck me as stupid too. But ...

Actually, I found his `for auction' post to be useful, even though I'm not going to buy it. I have a glider in the garage that I picked up at a swap meet. I had no idea what it was, but now I know that's an Aquila (or at least _very_ similar to one.)

Here's a picture of the plane I've got --

(if it's not an Aquilia, if somebody does know exactly what it is, let me know.)

| Also note that it is "common practice" to spam. And since this was | argueably crossposted from ebay to here then you could also make the case | that this is another form of spam.

It's also `common practice' to assume that everybody shares your opinion, to assume that you're speaking for everybody.

In any event, it's *not* common practice to spam. Most people do not spam. A few do it accidently, and a very few do it intentionally and repeatedly. It's those very few that are the big problem.

| No one has yet said that it would be improper to use this group for | every rc air item on ebay.

Ok, I'll bite :

It would be permitted, and therefore somewhat proper, under the current charter.

If every regular of rec.models.rc.air posted here whenever they sold an R/C airplane item on Ebay, it would certainly be proper, especially if they only posted once every week or two. If the number of posts became too high, then maybe we'd want to amend the charter. But so far, it has not been a problem, and I don't see it becoming a problem in the near future.

If every store that sells stuff on Ebay posted here every time they listed something on Ebay that might be relevant, then that would be a problem _even though the charter allows it_ (Ebay wouldn't, however), and the regulars would probably go ahead and amend the charter to clarify the rules regarding `for sale' and `for auction' posts.

| Spam is a slippery slope indeed, you should see my junk email | folder.

Your junk email folder is nothing compared to mine, and yet it's still totally irrelevant to this discussion.

| If you want to allow some then you have to allow all 11000 per week, | and most of them probably wont put [FA] in the title.

No, you do not. Though the current charter _would_ permit this.

| And since it is free they will post it repeatedly. Where do YOU | draw the line on what is spam?

It's amusing that you referred to spam as a `slippery slope'. Because that's exactly what your argument here is -- it's a `slippery slope' argument --

It's a logical fallacy, an error in your thinking process. Just because the rules don't prohibit all for sale posts, that doesn't mean that the group will be flooded with them tomorrow. And on the off chance that this does happen, the group will take care of it.

This group has been around for over nine years. It's mostly spam free, though the off-topic stuff (political mostly, though this thread is pretty off-topic too) is pretty annoying. There's no reason to claim that the sky is falling and we'll be inundated with spam tomorrow, all because the charter permits stuff to be sold here.

OB R/C:

Ok, it's official. I'm going flying! It looks like the clouds are even lightening up somewhat. Personally, I'd really prefer an at least partially sunny day so I can do some thermal gliding (including the glider mentioned earlier) but you gotta make do with what you're given ...

Looks like an Aquila to me.

It looks like somebody had sharpened the nose of an Aquila, and changed the canopy.

-Fritz

Use FA as the first item in the subject. Do not place brackets around it. This way our filters can remove spam from the group without it bothering us.

Thanks Sparky, I will follow your instructions, if I ever do this again...

Bruce

The airplane in the picture is an Aquila, absolutely. The nose has been modifed with a new canopy as the original clear canopies were notorious for comming off in flight and dissappearing. It could also have had the front end rebuilt from some hard landing misfortune. I have built other Aquila's in the past and this could even be a scratch built Aquila.

There was a company that made short kits that included plans, parts and lazer cut ribs, but you had to make up your own fuselage from scratch... Many builders add their own style and craftsman touch on their builds and perhaps this is such a plane.

It looks reasonably good in the pictures and the owner will enjoy flying it from a "HiStart" (100 ft 3/16 dia tan surgical tubing and 500 ft of 80lbs test kiteline.) Great first time all around high perfomance glider for it's time.

I enjoyed many an hour with my previous Aquila...

Thanks

Bruce Feaver