Just to alert everyone to a freak problem we had with a Kurt type vise. The problem happened with an MSC Kurt look-alike vise. A coworker was putting some flats on both sides of some .125 pins. But then some of the pins' flats were off center even after being indicated in. So we put an indicator on the back jaw (a custom made one) and saw that when the vise was tightened the indicator moved some .005. Then we put the indicator on the back of the immovable jaw support (at least theoretically immovable). And IT MOVED .005 when the vise was tightened. The vise was taken off the machine and the solid support was taken off the base and all surfaces and the key and keyway were cleaned, deburred and reassembled. It STILL moved when tightened. Now I'm not saying this couldn't happen to a real Kurt, but it DID happen to non-Kurt vise.
This particular vise was purchased in an auction some years ago. It has an MSC label and is obviously of much better quality than the couple of Chinese vises we bought years ago (which were totally unusable).
I looked around the shop yesterday (10 man shop, 5 programmers 5 manual guys), and here's what I could find in the way of vises.
3 each, Kurt D688's (6" wide jaw - 8.8" opening)
2 each, Kurt D675's (6" wide jaw - 7.5 opening)
3 each, Kurt D810's (8" wide jaw - 10" opening)
4 each, Kurt 6" wide jaw DoubleLock vises
2 each, 6" Old style Kurt vises
2 each, MSC Kurt copies (one of which was the offending vise that started this thread)
2 each Chinese Kurt copies (that were out of square some .005 on the vertical 1.750 jaw height right out of the box, so have almost never been used)
2 each old Kurts that have had the side rails milled off for some special job.
1 each Taiwan Kurt copy (seems useful when none of the others are available)
There are a couple of more vises in the back of the shelf, but I don't know what they are.
One of the Makino Horizontal machine's tombstones has 4 integral (built in - non removable) double lock type vises from Toolex:
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It is an 8 station unit, with the neat feature that the jaw blocks themselves are easily removable/replaceable with other blocks for easy fixture building.
Well that's about it for us vise wise, I would guess the selection is fairly common in a small shop that's been in business for a few decades.
There is nothing special or great about the standard Kurt vise. They were better than Bridgeport vises. They have served well. It's time for something better.
Where is it? I saw it at a Haas demo day over a year ago:
You mean your only experience with a product you're commenting on comes solely from a demo? How surprising!
If there's "nothing special or great about the standard Kurt vise", why is it the industry standard? What other 6 inch standard vise would you recommend in it's place?
Joe, These from an occasional poster, Stan Dornfeld, look nice:
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For myself I'm a Kurt vise kinda guy. When I got my new VMC I ordered a couple of Kurt 6" vises, the kind that you can put on their side if needed (no coolant trough). They came in matched even though I didn't request this, which was a very nice benefit. I also like the way that you are able to lay a piece of shim stock in to protect the lead screw from chips. The nut also has a brush type seal to keep the crap off the screw.
If I was Bob's boss I wouldn't have bought a knockoff to begin with. At this point the cheap knockoff would be in the dumpster. No point in throwing good money after bad in repairing it!
Those Quad-I vises definitely look great. They don't really do anything for me particularly but I could definitely see how they would fit in at other shops nicely.
We pretty much only do repeat production work, so regular Kurt vises are reserved for stuff that won't handily go into a Toolex Snaplock dual position vise.
For normal ol' vises though, a Kurt D675 is pretty hard to beat for the price. And it's made right here in America. Kurt Manufacturing is also one HECK of a contract manufacturer, which has always impressed me.
Chick makes a fine product so does Kurt. So in your own words exactly what makes the Chick "Something Better"?
Funny how your link puts an old rusted vintage Kurt vise next to the compititions NEW shiny vise. It's also funny that the vintage Kurt vise other than some rust looks to be in remarkably good condition.
The Chick Build-A-Vise prototype I saw and tried at the Haas open house in Phoenix (Tempe) over a year ago appeared to be very strong. Chick was supposed to sell this vise for the same price as the standard Kurt vise. I called Chick today and this vise project maybe dead in the water. I think they are having problems with cost. The Dapra vises are probably not priced to compete with Kurt. Seems like this would be a good opportunity for someone to capitalize on.
I am really not in the market for vises or anything else. Loosers like me just like to call and try and impress people. Most of them see right thru me so I then post my usual crap about them and their products.
Brewer better ask your wife for even more help. As per usual you have your head shoved up your ass. See your own comments below:
Ignorant:
"Jon, I never forgot any of your postings about SDRC I made the wrong decision in spite of what you said. There have been a number of times that my Wife has told me to be careful in dealing with someone and after words says "I told you so". She earned the right to say it as well as you have earned the right to say I TOLD YOU SO. I made a decision that went against my better judgment and as usual it turned out poorly." .... Tom Brewer
Ignorant:
"I do not purchase programs unless I know before hand that they are what I want and/ or need."... Tom Brewer who can't follow his own advice. See above.
Ignorant:
Tom Brewer thinking he and his pals like Joe788 can play their Usenet staking games, lie on a repeated basis and suffer no consequences for doing so.
Ignorant:
"I have shot myself in the foot, not an easy thing to do when it is in your mouth and your head is in your ass."... Tom Brewer admitting what he's often like.
Ignorant:
Someone who has a proven track record of not being able to deal with or accept the kind of change that occurs in the cadcam market... now that's ignorant or should we say that's Tom Brewer.
Ignorant:
Someone who doesn't live in San Diego yet insists there is no shortage of CNC machinists here... now that's ignorant or should we say that's Tom Brewer.
Ignorant:
Someone who criticizes someone on SolidWorks but has never helped anyone with specific SolidWorks answers. Someone who is not able to answer any questions that "Vinny" had on master modeling or skeletal modeling. Someone who has never posted any models they have done... now that's ignorant or should we say that's Tom Brewer.
Ignorant:
Tom Brewer's failure to understand who Matt Lombard really is.
Ignorant:
Tom Brewer's unable to comprehend what's on the cover of the SolidWorks Bible:
"Whether you're a new, intermediate, ...."
Ignorant:
Someone who can't understand more than a simple "I love it!" or "I hate it!" type of comment ... now that's ignorant or should we say that's Tom Brewer.
Ignorant:
Tom Brewer implies that because you acknowledge that the $25 SolidWorks course covers subjects / topics that the $650 SolidWorks course didn't that you're now somehow an idiot and got screwed when you decided to purchase the $650 SolidWorks course.
Tom Brewer Writing About SmartCAM:
"I ended up paying a consultant $40.00 per hour for two weeks."
"FYI, when I said "Solid modeling" in reference to SmartCam it was tongue in cheek. What you could not see is that when I was typing that I was laughing to myself. Anyone that uses SmartCam and Solid Modeling in the same sentence cannot be taken seriously."
Recently Tom Brewer said SmartCAM had no user interface problems and yet the record shows Tom Brewer thinks SmartCAM does indeed have user interface problems:
"The only real problem that I run into is that the screen can get cluttered and it becomes difficult to pick and choose elements in Free Form. I just use the utility masking feature to hide what is in the way, that cures the problem but it does add work (I tried the snap filtering and snap options but for me it was not the best way), I have seen other packages that handle picking and choosing in better."
Conclusion:
Tom Brewer thinks he's a SolidWorks expert. A SolidWorks expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing.
jon_banquer wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@w4g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
It always seemed to me that price should be the last consideration. I like the Allmatic vise because on top of being very rigid you can set the closing pressure. So if you have a part that tends to bow, crush or deform any monkey can run the job without over or under tightening the vise.
Allmatic demos the vises at machine shows by chucking on an egg. You can try to tighten it as tight as you can but it won't let you break the egg.
Allmatic's quad type vises for mounting on a HMC pallet are definitly more rigid than the Chick. But you really have to be getting after it pretty hard before you notice any deflection in the Chick.
"It always seemed to me that price should be the last consideration."
Was it in Bottlebob's case where the shop owner he works for purchased Chinese Kurt knock-offs? Surely you don't think he's the only one who has done this?
"like the Allmatic vise because on top of being very rigid you can set the closing pressure. So if you have a part that tends to bow, crush or deform any monkey can run the job without over or under tightening the vise. Allmatic demos the vises at machine shows by chucking on an egg. You can try to tighten it as tight as you can but it won't let you break the egg."
Looks like the chips can get into the base pretty easily. I liked the vise they showed holding the exhaust manifold casting.
"Allmatic's quad type vises for mounting on a HMC pallet are definitly more rigid than the Chick. But you really have to be getting after it pretty hard before you notice any deflection in the Chick."
Do you think the aluminum base of the Chick is any disadvantage? The quad type Chicks were so nice to work with. Simple design and a just pleasure to change over. Part of the problem with Chick maybe that the original owner sold out. When that happens innovation usually goes out the window.
Cute vise. I doubt that the X+, Y+ feature is very important in this day and age of CAM systems in virtually every shop.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. A regular Kurt costs like what, $500? If the Chinese knock-offs cost like $180 for a pair, and *IF* they had worked as well... then that would be saving like $820.
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