On topic - Coolant

Rust, everywhere. Everything in my shop is sticky now, been using the stuff for about 8 months now.

I am looking for anybody else that might be having any of the same issues.

FWIW, I changed from Val-Cool when they changed the compounding of their coolant, and all 5 of my sumps turned to shit. Big expense to change out coolant, or to even evaluate a new brand, and when the $$$ is coming out of my pocket, I'd like to keep costs down.

"D"

I use RustLick 50-50 (not 50/50 dilution), with none of these problems. Rust will form if the stuff gets too dilute, tho.

Add a rust inhibitor. Some brands come *with* a rust inhibitor, mebbe even bacteriacides.

Don't know how anal you are about your machines, but if you use the machine a lot, you're proly topping off a lot anyway. Mebbe just start adding a different brand, without a wholesale swap, and over time, the old will dilute out, the new will predominate.

I'm sure the purists will flame this, but it is an option.

But *definitely* buy/add some rust inhibitor, for now.

Yep, you can see it coming because you know deep down it just isn't right.

IMO you shouldn't even consider contaminating your new, better, high performance formula with the old stuff (from a different manufacturer or blend). It's a new formula that just cost you more than a few bucks and to turn around and screw it up right off the bat with an old tired formula that doesn't work doesn't make sense or cents. A person could get lucky and it might work out but you don't really know what mixing the two formulas will do other than dilute the good stuff.

Tom

As I see it, you are not gradually improving the old stuff you're just screwing up the new.

-- Tom

Well, I was thinking in the reverse: gradually improving the old stuff with the good stuff. fwiw.

Not saying this is economical in the big picture, with possible machine effects etc, but in the short term it softens the coolant blow.

Coolants also have things like seal protectors, which could be a factor.

I'm rethinking this strategy for myself as well, as my buddy dumped a whole pile of KoolMist on me, that I've been using up. I'm in the process of looking stuff up, to find out how wise/unwise that strat is. It's saved me $$ coolant wise, and my machining is not really critical, but still, now that I'm skimming, I'm getting more persnickety.

Inneresting, Rustlick explicitly excludes titanium for some its formulas.

We also changed from Val-Cool which rusted lots of our equipment, collets, tool holders, etc. Since changing to what I recommended (Blasocut) all our problems stopped. No more sticking tools on the Haas's, no more rust, no more problems period. Everyone here is very, very happy with what I recommended.

We run it at a 7 percent mix. Recommended is anywhere from 5 percent to 15 percent.

Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

Your not talking mixing two different products are you?

I've had good luck with Blaser Universal 2000

It's worked well for me on a variety of materials. I find my tool rep. who sells Blaser to be very knowledgeable about coolants. I think Blaser does a lot of training with their reps. I've not had a paint or rust problem with it.

I try and keep it between 8%-10% on the refractometer. I find the lathe creeps up in concentration a lot quicker than the mill. I think because in general I can create more heat on the lathe.

Best, Steve

There's reason when doing a change of coolants that every mfg. that I know of recommends a chemical type of cleaning before switching products. I think what may occur is you screw up the additive package.

Best, Steve

So you've done it a few times before it sank in?

-- Tom

We're using BC20-SW.

I think it's also very important to buy their $500 mixing unit. Without it the coolant seems to separate. With it no problems.

Mixing different coolants is something only an idiot would do.

Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

Ok, to answer a few of the q's

Yes, I am very anal about my machines, they cost a hell of a lot more than my cars, so I try to take good care of them, maint, cleaning, etc. The mere thought of mixing two products together, using my machines as the "test beaker", rolls my stomach!! You never mix that kind of stuff, not from two different companies! Maybe not a bad idea if it comes from the same company, and the primary mix is approx. the same, AND the supplier can verify the integrity of having some success in doing so. Seen more than one case of chemical burns / dermatitus from that.

Valcool changed the formulation when Cincinatti stopped making the stuff for them, they came up with their own products, parafin was floating around in the tanks, and out of the blue (no pun intended), the stuff seperated, costing me a couple of days to fix the 2 tanks that turned to crap, I cannot absorb that kind of downtime again!

Blasocut may be the answer, but right now $500.00 for a mixer is a lot of endmills and inserts, and stopping running machines to change everything out! iff'n ye gets my drift!

Should get a call from Starchem today, we'll see how it goes.

"D"

Anyone have a link to a comparison chart of specific products, ito performance, bang fer buck, etc?

This article compares classes of oils, not specific brands, products.

Another shows the properties, pros/cons. Synthetics seem to be a good bet, except they have have poor "lubricity", poor rust protection, which may be solved by additives.

Another shows what constitutes light-every heavy duty applications. Light: Milling! Mod: turning Heavy: drilling, sawing, cut-tapping Very Heavy: broaching, form tapping, reaming, threading, gear cutting.

The last is a little vague, but shows what is contained in the "soluble oils", for application intensity.

I think we here tend to use "soluble oil" as an all inclusive generic, but this article shows that "soluble oil" is a specific class, distinct from semi-synthetic, synthetic.

The OP's rusting problem would seem to be from a synthetic with no additives.

fwiw, Rustlick 5050 and KoolMist 77 seem to mix just fine.

Each initially mixes differently in water, Koolmist much more easily than the goppy rustlick, but they seem to be compatible, and I think have similar dilutions. As I may have mentioned, Koolmist claims their stuff to be a good flood coolant as well, and I think is synthetic.

For demanding machining, tho, it would appear that knowing exactly what you got and how it behaves is pretty important.

What we really need is a product-by-product comparison chart, by some independent.

Most good coolants want to be mixed very well. A paint mixer is only for emergencies. The stuff tends to stay in little suspended droplets (or sometimes even big suspended droplets) rather than properly emulsifying. Whether it mixes while running, or coagulates into bigger and bigger droplets, depends on the coolant itself, how much it gets beaten up and atomized by cutting actions, and other factors like the concentration, the presence of tramp oil, bacteria, or other contaminants.

Using a good mixer can make a huge difference in performance, and also in the life of the coolant.

KG

Wouldn't the centfrifugal pump itself be a good mixer? Mebbe put in a bypass circuit so that when it isn't pumping coolant to the machine, it's pumping/recirculating in the tank? At least on some cycle time?

Some of these centrifugal pumps seem pretty ferocious! My gray mills pump on the fadal puts out almost 35 psi!!

and/or take care when mixing

If stirring concentrate in, put water in container first, then gradually pour in a little concentrate at a time as you're mixing it (don't just dump it in).

-- Tom

For mixing most things, the pump would be fine. But you're literally trying to mix water and oil. It will never happen in fact - not like mixing water and alchohol, for example, which are compatible. What you're trying to do is physically break the oil down into the smallest droplets possible. Those never disolve; but stay suspended in the water. The finer the droplets, the more the stuff acts like it should, with the right proportions of coolant and water in every little bit of what gets tossed at your tools.

The pump moves the mixture around real well; but it'd be better if you could smear it or smash it, or force it through a fine mesh, or almost anything to reduce the droplet size. Think of mixing pancake batter by hand. You can stir forever and the lumps of dry flour are still there. But beat the batter with a wisk, or smear the lumps against the side of the bowl with a big spoon, and you get much better pancakes.

The mixers that most coolant suppliers sell are more expensive than they need to be; but they work well, and pay for themselves in the long run.

KG

PV, just circulating this stuff with a centrifugal pump works well enough for me. The coolant does not reconstitute afterwards, which is what it was designed to do, after all.

I bought a mixer for about $140 a few years ago, and it's one of the best purchases I've ever made. It's just a pipe with a valve on it that goes down into the drum of coolant. You hook up the garden hose to one side, and an exit hose to the other side. A knob on the top adjusts the concentration. The coolant is 100% mixed and no problems with separation. Put the coolant drum on a little drum dolly, and just roll it to the machine that needs coolant. Hook up the garden hose, and you're filling the sump with perfect coolant.

We've been using Hangsterfers S500 for the last 5-6 years without trouble. It's a great coolant. We collect the concentrate from the drain hoses on the mist collectors, pour it back in the drum, and use it again.