On topic - Coolant

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When was the last time you checked your machines to see if they were level?
When was the last time you had Mike do a ball-bar test?
I've got Mike's cell phone number and there is a reason I have it. Do you have it? You should.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

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Yeah Jon, you are really on the ball with that maintenance, aren't you?
"What sucks is that two or our Haas's keep dropping tools. Our VF-1 and our Mini-Mill." - Jon Banquer
"Seems to me like the spindle is heating up and the tool holder sticks in the spindle. Coating the pull stud with synthetic grease doesn't seem to help." - Jon Banquer
"Do you mean the gage above the way lube reservoir? If so it's at zero on both machines and stays at zero even during a tool change." -Jon Banquer
When asked why he hasn't solved the tool dropping issue, Jon responds:
"Helpful post as I only have a casual interest and don't intend to make much of an effort in this area anytime soon.When I get some time I might look into it more. It's not a high priority for me or for our shop and it's not part of what the company I work for expects from me." - Jon Banquer

wrote:
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LOL....yep, and how exactly does a ball-bar test work or benefit a company on a machines with tables full of damage like raised surfaces caused by these dropping tool holders that regularly bounce around in the work area.
And what about those Kurt Vises Jon claims are all within .0001". I mean....really.........placing them on a repeatedly damaged table where his sharp tools, some of them carbide in heavy holders dropping, free falling a foot or two, hitting table, work, vises and banging around in the work area.."Not that's IN-correct"......and what exactly happens to the tool, tool holder, mill table, vises, work with this stuff randomly bouncing around in the machine envelope....
Ball-bar tests indeed.
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But didn't Jon claim to be able to check parts to 40 millionths? .....LOL
-- Tom http://tinyurl.com/5okkgz

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:
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That just means he accidentally hit the "mm" button on a digital micrometer, and now it reads in microns and Jon doesn't know how to change it back.
KG

wrote:
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Ball bar testing only checks axis perpendicularity, leadscrew error and backlash... none of which are affected whatsoever by nicks, dings, raised areas etc on the table surface.

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 23:00:38 -0700, "Brother Lightfoot"
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My point being: What benefit is a ball-bar test where the machine table, tools, holders, work, etc. are all abused?
-- Tom http://tinyurl.com/5okkgz

jon_banquer wrote:
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Jon, Any idea what a ball-bar test costs?
Best, Steve

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Steve,
I only have a source for doing Haas machines. I think the Haas factory outlet charges between $200 and $300.
I can get them done for less... in southern, CA.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

jon_banquer wrote:
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No, Jon. A ball-bar test has nothing to do with cue balls or the local saloon. And we're not talking about a contractor you've hand selected based on your skill and experience, who'll show up with a couple tennis balls and a pry-bar.
Steve's asking about a way of actually testing and tuning the motion systems on a machine tool. Anybody who'd do it for $300 probably figures he'll just spend two hours going through the motions, knowing that it won't matter on a beat up Haas, and you wouldn't know the difference anyway.
Save your money and buy a catcher's glove to snag those flying tool holders.
KG

Suggest you get back to doing what you do best captain Kirk... cleaning the Tom Brewer, Kriss Hogg and Joe788 out of toilets. That's about all a blow hard like you is really good for because teaching sure isn't your strength and your moronic machinist program ideas prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

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Ha! Funny coincidence: I was the marketing manager for Sodick in the early '80s, and we had a new toolchanging EDM that had some...uh, teething problems. It had a tool carousel that rotated in the horizontal plane and it tended to let go of tools and send them flying with some pretty good velocity. These were 40-taper tools and they weren't light, like the EDM toolholders in the System 3R toolchangers are.
Anyway, we were giving a demo one day and the toolchanger sent one flying into the wall behind the machine. My boss, a notorious guy named Ed Ducey who everyone either loved or hated (mostly loved), didn't miss a beat. As soon as the thing hit the ground, he said, "Oh, I forgot to mention...you get a free catcher's mitt with every machine."
d8-)
-- Ed Huntress

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Level actually does not mean that much. Put a machine on a aircraft carrier and try to level it. What matters is that the machine is sitting on perpendicular planes. I have yet to see one machine that was "in Tram" when it was sitting perfectly level. Level gets you close....but tramming it in gets you closer. ball-bar tests do tell you some of the story, but not the whole story. They are excellent for things like backlash, servo mismatch, ect. They do not tell you anything about the linear accuracy of the machine however.

OK, back to the coolant, I wont engage the banter right now, other than to say there is very little effect a ball bar test or being level will have on my coolant :)
Talked to Ron Smith from Star Chem yesterday, he is sending a different coolant out to evaluate, seems the full synthetic offering is the culprit. Hard water here in Lake Elsinore is also a problem, but it has been for the 20 yrs Iv'e been out here :), sooooo, going to look at cost of D.I. system. I am going to give Star Chem the benefit of doubt and an opportunity to solve the issues I am having, I would expect the same consideration from any one of my customers if the shoe were on the other foot.
New coolant will arrive tomorrow!
FWIW, He said it CAN be mixed on top of the old stuff, go figure.
"D"

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IMO, treating your hard water would make a big difference and is a mistake not to do so.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

Agreed, not a mistake, costs, as always, drive decisions about such things. D.I. water is the beginning of a good coolant mix.
"D"

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We use a company called Puretec. I think we pay a very low monthly fee.
Purtec's phone number is 1-800-906-6060.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

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Thanks

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I have used a few different brands in my life and have come up with a few things that make it last quite a while.
1- Never add straight water....if you need to bring down the mixture you are better off adding 1% solution
2- Never use WD40 or any kind of degreaser. This will break your coolant down faster than anything. I have seen lots of people use WD40 on the bottom of a vise to keep things from rusting. Use way lube instead. To clean the inside of a machine, use a 1% solution of your coolant.
3- If a machine is going to be idle for more than a couple of days, put a aerator in your tank.
4- Every Monday pull your tank out & suck up the tramp oil with a shop vac. Weld a spigot onto the bottom of a 55 gallon drum. Dump what you vacuumed up into said drum. Next day, drain off the excess coolant with the spigot.
5- Fire anybody that spits into the coolant
6-Water quality is somewhat important....however our water here is kinda hard but we never have had a problem.
I have followed these rules for years...and only rarely do we throw any coolant out. If we have to empty a tank for maintenance, it goes into a recycler (basically its a big tank, with a dirty side and a clean side. Pumps from the dirty side to the clean while running though a series of louvers...this gets most tramp oil out) This coolant is what we use to replenish machines. In all these years only 1 person had a skin issue....So he became the EDM guy.
What we do throw out we boil all of the water out of it (got a special boiler for this) and take the remaining goo & mix it with all of the old oils (hydraulic, way lube, ect) and burn it in a oil burning furnace. No disposal costs :)

Oh, yea, use a mixer for mixing coolant...see what Kirk said.

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:49:58 -0700 (PDT), "\"D\""
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Maybe compare D.I. vs R.O. System.
-- Tom http://tinyurl.com/5okkgz