To All:
I'm as sick of the political bickering threads as everyone else, but I AM curious about one thing. Which party do you think will be better for the prosperity of machining and machine shops?
[ ] Obama [ ] McCainComments:
P.S. Please, no crossposting to kook groups, I couldn't care less what they think.
McCain.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
Which party do you think will be better for the prosperity of machining and machine shops? Or what would be good for the country.
This country cannot afford another 4 years of republican bullshit.
This country cannot afford another 4 years of partisan bullshit.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
[X] None of the above [X] Other
Proctologically Violated©®
Suggest squirrel away some cash for a boat ride to China.
65% of my work goes straight to the desert, the rest goes down the oil well. I still have to consider where I live. Consider... Wealth transfer Education Health Care Infrastructure Run away inflation Property values National Debt
McCain's choice of VP is good for his campaign, not the best for leading a country. You have to question the decision process with this guy.
I appreciate the, uh, penetrating support, but more correctly, it's the Independent Party of the Proctologically Violated (M)asses-- IPPVM.
Please send $$, as our campaign does need a little greasing up, as we are a little strapped-on for cash.
I pick McCain more because I see less potential for harm, or as is so often the case in politics, he looks to be the lesser of two evils. But neither are addressing many of the really critical issues, the hard ones that carry the kiss of death in political campaigns.
And we're hanging on by such a thin thread, I think it will be a small miracle if whoever does get elected doesn't trigger some financial disaster through unintended consequences. Even if they do, the house of cards could still fall from external stimuli.
Jon
McCain has a proven track record of working with Democrats. That's one of the things I really like about him.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
OT question; is it possible to change the VP after an election ( not as result of impeachment or criminal conviction ) ?
Resignation or Death
I'm gonna have to go with McCain. I can't see anything good happening for anybody who makes over $50,000-$60,000 a year if Obama is elected, and that includes a lot of machinists, and certainly most (successful) machine shop owners.
The latest issue of Modern Machine Shop has a fantastic article on the way our current tax system works, and Obama seems to be running his campaign on the fact that he'll magnify/multiply the problems with that very system.
From MMSOnline.com:
"I did not write it. I wish I had. The source is T. Davies, Professor of Accounting at the University of South Dakota School of Business, who told me he got it from a student. So, the real author remains unknown. Here=92s the article:
=93Let=92s put [income] tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
=93The first four men=97the poorest=97would pay nothing; the fifth would pa= y $1, the sixth would pay $3, the seventh $7, the eighth $12, the ninth $18 and the tenth man=97the richest=97would pay $59. That=92s what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day the owner threw them a curve (in tax language, a tax cut).
=91Since you are all such good customers,=92 he said, =91I=92m going to red= uce the cost of your daily meal by $20.=92 So now dinner for the ten only cost $80. =93The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six=97the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his =91fair share?=92 The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. If they subtracted that from everybody=92s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being paid to eat their meals.
=93So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man=92s bill by the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. The fifth man now paid nothing, the sixth paid $2, the seventh paid $5, the eight paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59. Each of the six was better off than before, and the first four continued to eat for free.
=93However, once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. =91I only got a dollar out of the $20!=92 declared the sixth man, pointing to the tenth. =91But he got $7!=92
=91Yeah, that=92s right!=92 exclaimed the fifth man. =91I only saved a doll= ar, too. It=92s unfair that he got seven times more than me!=92 =91That=92s tru= e!=92 shouted the seventh man, =91Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!=92 =91Wait a minute,=92 yelled the firs= t four men in unison. =91We didn=92t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!=92
=93The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn=92t show up for dinner (or, in the real world, he took his business out of the country), so the nine sat down and ate without him. When it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late, what was very im-portant. They were $52 short of paying the bill. Imagine that!
=93=85And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors, is how the tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much or attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. Where would that leave the rest? Unfortunately, most taxing authorities anywhere cannot seem to grasp this rather straightforward logic!=94 The end!
Now, I have a favor to ask of you: Please send a copy of this article to every politician you know who could influence income tax legislation. Make sure you include both presidential candidates.
The sad part is that we=97professional tax practitioners=97have not figured out how to beat the income tax. Earn and you pay; earn more and you pay more."
Amen -- like the Q of how to get that hyooge Congressional/Corporate Strap-on out of our Collective Asses.
Altho I myself think obama is the lesser of two evils. But either way, I doubt the vision/intellect/philosophical integrity/strength of either is enough to do much/avert much.
Ron Paul was proly The Dude, but since he has a few shreds of dignity, the Pubic was not sufficiently enamored.
McCain has no dignity whatsoever -- he'd slither on the ground, belly up and naked, iffin the Pubic wanted him to.
Obama is just a natural showman.
Amen again.
Would that be the house of 3-card Monte, by any chance?? Wall Street 3-card Monte -- or Ponzi -- it's hard to tell which -- are inherently fragile. I think said house of house of cards has stood up this long because we have an effing Pubic who elected Bush -- TWICE!!!!
And Gunner et al, who're (dats "who are" ) not even apologetic or embarrassed about it. goodgawd....
And I'd bet that if Bush ran again, he'd win again!!! Why?? Because said Pubic thinks they could kick back with ole George, talk shit, and chug a few beers--and maybe even blow up a cupla bullfrogs in the parking lot with ole George. Yup....
Plus, I think a good fraction of said Pubic wants to bang Laura.
The only people who really care about Iraq are the parents who lost kids over there. Ahm still hopin fer free oil -- but then ahm an effing moron.....
I'm gonna have to go with McCain. I can't see anything good happening for anybody who makes over $50,000-$60,000 a year if Obama is elected, and that includes a lot of machinists, and certainly most (successful) machine shop owners.
The latest issue of Modern Machine Shop has a fantastic article on the way our current tax system works, and Obama seems to be running his campaign on the fact that he'll magnify/multiply the problems with that very system.
From MMSOnline.com:
?Let?s put [income] tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
?The first four men?the poorest?would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1, the sixth would pay $3, the seventh $7, the eighth $12, the ninth $18 and the tenth man?the richest?would pay $59. That?s what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day the owner threw them a curve (in tax language, a tax cut).
?Since you are all such good customers,? he said, ?I?m going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20.? So now dinner for the ten only cost $80. ?The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six?the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ?fair share?? The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. If they subtracted that from everybody?s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being paid to eat their meals.
?So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man?s bill by the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. The fifth man now paid nothing, the sixth paid $2, the seventh paid $5, the eight paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59. Each of the six was better off than before, and the first four continued to eat for free.
?However, once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. ?I only got a dollar out of the $20!? declared the sixth man, pointing to the tenth. ?But he got $7!?
?Yeah, that?s right!? exclaimed the fifth man. ?I only saved a dollar, too. It?s unfair that he got seven times more than me!? ?That?s true!? shouted the seventh man, ?Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!? ?Wait a minute,? yelled the first four men in unison. ?We didn?t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!?
?The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn?t show up for dinner (or, in the real world, he took his business out of the country), so the nine sat down and ate without him. When it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late, what was very im-portant. They were $52 short of paying the bill. Imagine that!
??And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors, is how the tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much or attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. Where would that leave the rest? Unfortunately, most taxing authorities anywhere cannot seem to grasp this rather straightforward logic!? The end!
Now, I have a favor to ask of you: Please send a copy of this article to every politician you know who could influence income tax legislation. Make sure you include both presidential candidates.
The sad part is that we?professional tax practitioners?have not figured out how to beat the income tax. Earn and you pay; earn more and you pay more."
==================================== ===================================
Is the moral to the story that the Corporate Strap-on is actually a fish hook??
Too bad we don't vote on Congress' salary, eh?? Boy, I'd sure like to pay myself.....
I saw him soundly marginalized on Fox News, never heard him mentioned at all on CNN. I may vote for him on a write in.
Saw him and Sarah at some rally on TV today. She's talking, and getting everyone whipped up but good. She's a natural at it, have to give her that. But there's McCain behind her with a goofy grin, obviously thrilled that she's doing exactly what he picked her for, knowing he probably couldn't come close to matching her charisma. I think McCain is a good and decent man in and of himself, but I think he looks at the Presidency like you or I might gaze upon that sinfully fast muscle car we always wanted. His time has passed, but he's not giving up.
He is that. I'm no expert on body language, but I do pretty good at reading people. There's something about him that just doesn't sit right with me, can't really quantify it. I don't trust him any further than I can throw a Bridgeport.
Oh, we've created a nasty enough mine field ourselves, but I was thinking it could be something out of left field, from another country. Chavez cutting off all our oil, that sort of thing. Or a natural disaster like an 8.0 on the New Madrid fault. That would make Katrina look like a turd dropped in the toilet.... (hmm, what a metaphor....)
Dunno, with his approval rating I doubt it. But then, Congress rates even lower and most of those bastards will be back.
What I want to know is where the hell are the middle of the road voters? They can't exist in significant numbers anymore, or someone would be pandering to them. JB's dead nuts on with his comment on partisanship. It's real effective at keeping us from peeking behind the curtain.
Something else I wonder about. We, the people, do NOT directly elect the president. That is done by the electoral college. Just fer grins, what IF, Ron Paul won the popular vote in a landslide on a write-in miracle, but the electoral college voted in Obama or McCain? Hmm.... Could a third party even elect a president with the electoral college system? It was created at least in part as a check/balance sort of thing, to help prevent public opinion being swayed by publicity. Or so I once read. Given how the media can sell us almost anything these days, a pure democratic populist vote could almost be a scary thing. Imagine the mud slinging that would ensue in the final few days hoping for a couple point swing!
But in the end, a populist vote might be the only way to break into the two party system. And even if someone did, what could they really accomplish if the Republicrats decided to unite and stymie him/her? Geez, I just said 'if'. Like such a thing is even open to question....
Jon
Ron Paul. He's running independent. Bring Gold back as the monitary standard. That is the biggest problem we have right now, we keep writing checks with no money in the bank.
I can't watch ANY of these Dem or repubican dog&pony shows. To me, it's the visual/philosophical equivalent to nails on a chalkboard, or to watching New Kids on the Block, or Paris giving her thoughts on life. Sorry, didn't mean to get so obscene....
Winston Churchill observed that the best argument against democracy (and certainly a populist vote) is a 5 min conversation with the average voter.
Go Winston!!
What we really need is an intelligent, humanist/benevolent despot, with a penchant for putting corrupt officials, lawyers, and CEOs to instant death. Mebbe turn it into a spin-the-wheel gameshow or sumpn. Or have the execution-ees play one last game of Jeopardy, for their lives. Oh shit, ahm gettin a chubby..... Alex, I'll take Psychopathic Roman Emperors for $100....
Too much bother--they'll just have the troublemaker killed.
Vinny:
A third party vote in this election is throwing your vote away in a futile attempt to make a statement. It's essentially the same as not voting at all.
Which party do you think will be better for the prosperity of machining and machine shops?
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