Schlage Primus patent

did you get my email Mac ? is your return address correct ?

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Regarding Schlage Primus- about 5 years ago I heard a certified rumor = that Schloage was going to walk away from Primus once the patent had = expired. Man if I had the money I would start a company that = manufactures cylinders with expired patents. Those technology is great, = and a so called "patent" never protected anything anyway.

A patent itself does not protect anything, but what it does do is give the holder the means to protect his interest in the patent device. It has been my experience that any manufacturer will take anyone to court to protect their investment so patents actually do offer some protection when the manufacturer is willing to defend them.

Your rumor may or may not be true, I certainly have never heard that one before you uttered it here. The fact is that once the patent expires Schlage will have no means to protect the keys, but to me that is far from 'walking away'. I also doubt that you will see many of the primus blanks available other than C and E. Even if someone does make those blanks, the person wanting to use them will need a machine that can make the side bittings. BBE.

A what?

LOL Try manufacturing a 'so called' patented product without license from the patent holder and you will see how much protection it provides.

When searching for Primus info recently, I encountered some UK products I had never heard of: Schlage Primus S+, SX and Talon.

They appear to offer mortise, rim and Euro profile cylinder styles, but I could not find any technical info for them (although i admit only searching briefly).

Does anyone have some technical insight for these products? Are they simply alternative product branding, or something new?

The Schlage Primus Classic patent expires in 2007. The Schlage Primus Everest patent expires in 2014.

Look at the table on page 3 (page 5 of the pdf)

Everest and Primus cylinders and keys are covered by one or more of the following U.S. utility patents:

4,756,177 -

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4,815,307 -

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5,715,717 -

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5,809,816 -

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How interesting, someone has "housecleaned away" alot of messages... I was under the impression this usergroup was unmoderated?

If I'm mistaken, please advise who the authorized moderator(s) is/are...

Reply from yesterday:

There's no official moderator. Of course that doesn't keep cancelbots from killing spam (which is a good thing).

It's far more likely that the older messages simply exceeded the retention time on your own news server and were discarded. Or that you accidentally hit the "hide thread" or "block sender" buttons in your own newsreader and are not seeing them as a result. Welcome to Usenet.

Hello Joe,

The reply was sent yesterday, and disappeared overnight. Let's see if my resend goes away too...

I just wanted to confirm the Schlage Primus patent expires next year, not this year. The Schlage Primus Everest patent will expire in 2014.

That said, sidebar milling cutters are already out there, but the cost is not for a casual burglar or low volume locksmith (CIA maybe!). I'd rather have 5 sidebar pins than 1 for sure, so moving to the Primus QUAD platform may be a better future consideration for 1+ or higher holders.

Regards, David

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Dear Billy, You know a lot more about Schlage and their plans than I do, thats why I = prefaced my remarks by stating that they are a rumor. The lock companies = have committed themselves to stating that the only thing that protects = the customer against illicit key duplication is their patent protection. = When the patent runs out, will those companies say, "Nevermind"? Nah, = not too smart. The fact is that companies, institutions, etc that have any kind of = masterkey system face the greatest threat from compromise from their = internal maintenance people. Politics being what they are, the = maintenance person assigned to lock duties is in a position usually = considered a "plum" position by other maintenance persons, with extra = keys the result of that arrangement. At least that has been the case at = the three institutions at which I have worked, and over 220 buildings = that I have rekeyed and serviced with a mechanic and key machine on = site. In fact I have been battling the VA in Hudson valley, NY because the = Carpenter Shop foreman and his boss used their access to the Locksmith = key safe to build one house (Carpenter Foreman) from scratch, and an = addition on the supervisor's house and his sisters house with VA = materials, using VA employees being paid on VA time, using VA = earthmoving equipment, tools, etc. The union President (AFGE) and = friends pained the Associate Director's home under the same arrangement, = using paint supplied by breaking into the storage area with the = restricted key, filched from the Locksmith shop. Gasoline goes out the gate by the tens of thousands of gallons, an = entire 2400 square foot warehouse was filled to the brim by returned = tools. Those tools were stolen by this same gang who filched the keys = from the Locksmith Shop secured safe, so the building was accessed, and = outside gates opened to avoid anyone seeing them do it. The amount of loss- well over $1.5 million dollars and counting. Oh yes- the FBI- too busy chasing terrorists 9-5, Monday thru Friday = like good bureaucrats. VA Police- work for the same guy who was = benefitting from the stealing. No help there. VA IG- tried to intimidate = the witnesses (didn't work in all cases, there are a number of us who = are Veterans who don't scare).=20 Right now the sworn evidence is before a MSPB judge in New York City = where I have brought suit to bring this nonsense to an end.=20 Like most of the excellent locksmiths on this list I started young (age =

14 in 1965) and have a committment to the trust put in me. I have lots = more juicy details if anyone is interested. I think that this topic is = important, the role of the Locksmith in security, and how important it = is to secure the Locksmith and the shop from crooked supervisors, etc.

"Billy B. Edwards Jr." snipped-for-privacy@thelockman.com wrote in message = news: snipped-for-privacy@thelockman.com... > Bill Halle wrote: >=20 > Regarding Schlage Primus- about 5 years ago I heard a certified = rumor > that Schloage was going to walk away from Primus once the patent had > expired. Man if I had the money I would start a company that > manufactures cylinders with expired patents. Those technology is > great, and a so called "patent" never protected anything anyway.

A patent itself does not protect anything, but what it does do is give the holder the means to protect his interest in the patent device. It has been my experience that any manufacturer will take anyone to court to protect their investment so patents actually do offer some = protection when the manufacturer is willing to defend them.

Your rumor may or may not be true, I certainly have never heard that = one before you uttered it here. The fact is that once the patent expires Schlage will have no means to protect the keys, but to me that is far from 'walking away'. I also doubt that you will see many of the = primus blanks available other than C and E. Even if someone does make those blanks, the person wanting to use them will need a machine that can = make the side bittings. BBE.

There are no moderators but that doesn't stop somebody from canceling a message. It's a lot of trouble to go through though for something that would likely offend nobody. It's also usually a waste of time because many news servers ignore cancels outright even if they are legitimately from the messages original author and originate from the same ip address.

Everyone knows or should know that patents eventually expire. It's common knowledge.

What does any of this have to do with patents? These were 'trusted' individuals who had access to the same blanks/keys used for legitimate purposes were they not? No amount of key restriction will do anything if untrustworth individuals have access to the keys.