Magnetic Susceptibility of Dental Amalgams



Thats whats new. Seiko have made watch batteries that run on the temp difference between your body and ambient air. So if you wear it into the sauna, you could go back in time... :-/ Only a limited number were made for test purposes.
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madiba

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Buy Seiko stock.
snipped-for-privacy@thekraal.com (madiba) wrote in message wrote:

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On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:39:52 +0100, snipped-for-privacy@thekraal.com (madiba) wrote:

No. Batteries are needed to buffer the varying input current from the energy source.
The watch circuits do need a constant supply, and therefore between energy souce and energy user a converter with storage is neccessary.
Regards,
Aribert Deckers
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On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 17:21:04 +0100, Happy Oyster

What? Batteries are needed to butter the varying input current from the energy source???????
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Joel M. Eichen, .
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On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:35:16 -0500, Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.

Yes. ;o)
Regards,
Aribert Deckers
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What varying input current and what buffer? The thermoelectric effect produces a constant current when there is a constant thermal gradient. And if the gradient reverses you will get a change in the direction of the current "ie AC". In the mouth this effect does not occur due to lack of thermal gradient. Also to generate 1.5V this gradient meeds to be several degrees.
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On 5 Feb 2004 00:54:39 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.ca (Alexander Vasserman DDS., BS.) wrote:

You appear to be saying that thermal gradients of several degrees do not occur in the mouth.
Is this what you are intending to say?
And, if so, can you explain why you think that this is the case?
Keith P Walsh
PS, enquiries concerning the electrical properties of dental amalgams can be found at:
http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm
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wrote:

REPLY
I agree. Its fun to eat Baked Alaska and try to get a piece with both the ice cream and the carmelized sauce .........

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Joel M. Eichen, .
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:52:48 +0000 (UTC), Keith P Walsh

REPLY
Keith must be right. My mouth lights up from 350 millivolts of electricity every time I chew on my amalgams.

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Joel M. Eichen, .
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Keith P Walsh
From what I remember its if you heat one end of a copper wire and cool the other you will get a small current this will never happen in the mouth(the metal will either be warm or cold not both at the same time) and it does not make amalgam filling into a battery or a capacitor. and the link you provided talks nothing of seeing this effect between silver and mercury and as you yourself pointed out it is not a sustained current and is limited from one end of the metal to the other.
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On 25 Jan 2004 22:26:48 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.ca (Alexander Vasserman DDS., BS.) wrote:

This is correct. I tried it once but I got a call from her lawyer .........

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Joel M. Eichen, .
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In sci.physics, Alexander Vasserman DDS., BS.
wrote on 24 Jan 2004 20:45:02 -0800

Pedant point: anything can be a capacitor if it holds charge, and anything conductive can hold a charge. Of course it's not like it's a *big* cap; I suspect a few picofarads at most.

See http://home.earthlink.net/~ewill3/eer/calculations.html for a highly theoretic (and non-working) capacitative device the size of a D-cell that is outperformed by said D-cell. (It's a response to Feerguy, who occasionally posts on this forum relating his theories on the "trench capacitor".)

Could lead to erosion of the filling, methinks.

Hmm... According to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla
1 T = 1 V s / m^2 = 1 kg / (s^2 A) = 1 N/ (A m) = 1 Wb / m^2
The Earth's magnetic field is 2 * 10^-5 to 3 * 10^-5 T, at least on the surface (I've always remembered it as 1 gauss = 10^-4 tesla so this is about half as strong as I had thought), and presumably this means a wire of length 1 meter moving through the field with a velocity of 1 m/s will generate a potential of about 30 microvolts at the most.
Not very much. :-) Even the shuttle astronauts moving through space at 8 km/s will only experience maybe a 240 mV potential, if that. Of course it might be of some significance on the shuttle itself (the shuttle is 37.24 m long) and the tethered satellite experiment performed some time back was generating 50KV potentials IIRC, until the tether broke.
If one gets enough turns of wire one might get a nice current but at this potential one will definitely need a step-up transformer, :-) and a *lot* of turns.
Note that the world's strongest magnetic field is apparently 25 Tesla or so; presumably generators work with less than that. I'd have to look for the specs on Grand Coolie or Hoover Dam, for example.

The reading would be wiped out by carpet static electricity anyway, which is a few hundred to a few thousand volts -- hence the need for certain antistatic products.

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But electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350mV have been measured in dental amalgams.
You can read all about it at:
http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm
What's in question here is not whether these potentials exist (unless you know of some reason why the measurements should be regarded as inaccurate), but how they are produced.
Keith P Walsh
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I believe several serious questions about the measurements and potential corruption due to noise have already been raised. This is underscored by the fact that bot pos and neg potentials were measured. You need to go back to the physics of the problem to see why this would ***NOT*** point to any electrochemical effects of the amalgam. In the mean time the phrase "garbage in, garbage out" is very relevant to these amalgam experiments.
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One thing is for sure is that they are not produced via a temperature gradient regardless of what is available in nature. So if there is a voltage, it is not from the thermoelectric effect. I will check the link.

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read the link,
I do not know how accurate or credible the information is. That said, according tothis article, these potentials were measured from live subjects. There is no evidence indicating that the 350mV is generated by brain activity outward. I do know that if the amalgam was placed on a typodont model there will be no potential measured.

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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.ca (Alexander Vasserman DDS., BS.) wrote:

Good point. I see a huge fallacy in this measurement (quoted from the Dutch report):

The potentials they are measuring are not decoupled from the human body and are dominated by effects from countless other naturally occuring electrical impulses present in the body. The only conclusion to be drawn is that the human body's potential varies with time, regardless of the presence of amalgams. The potential due to the amalgam cannot be determined robustly based on the methodology presented in the paper.
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wrote:

Lots of other people have measured amalgam potentials too.
Here's an abstract by a couple who published their findings:
" Nilner K, Holland RI.
The potentials of 407 amalgam restorations have been determined in vivo. The measurements were performed with very high impedance equipment, and relative to a Ag/AgCl reference electrode. The readings varied from -23 mV to -595 mV, with 90% of the readings confined to within -127 mV to -431 mV and a mean value of -226.1 mV. Of the restorations, 394 were measured twice, and no significant difference could be found between the first and the second reading. During the study, eight new restorations were inserted. Their potentials varied from -180 mV to -565 mV, with a mean of -339.4 mV, which was significantly lower than that of the older restorations.
PMID: 3862235 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] "
From:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids862235&dopt stract
The largest measurement quoted here has a magnitude of 595mV.
That's over half a volt.

If the electrical potentials generated by amalgam fillings are "not decoupled from the human body", then experimental investigations to determine whether or not these potentials are able to dissipate electrical energy through the human neorological system should have been carried out.
The resting potential of a human nuerological synapse has a magnitude of only 70mV.
That's quite small compared with 595mV.

I wonder if you might be following (perhaps unwittingly) the Peter Sheridan(*) school of "scientific" thinking which says something like:
"Hey fellas, I've explained how nobody really understands what's being measured here - SO WE CAN JUST IGNORE THE MEASUREMENTS!"
Which is no kind of scientific thinking at all.
It's just rank stupidity.
The neurological synapses in the nerve fibres running to and from a child's teeth have resting potentials with magnitudes of just 70mV.
And the electrical potentials generated by amalgam dental fillings, which continue to be placed in children's teeth, have been measured with magnitudes of more than 500mV.
I belive that experimental investigations to determine whether or not these potentials are able to dissipate electrical energy through the nerves in people's heads should therefore have been carried out.
And I am confident that I am right.
Keith P Walsh
(*) see:
http://www.imssf.org/researchamal.shtml
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ok, have you done an exhaustive search of all publications to show where they have been done? if they should have been carried out, then someone must have already done it. i'm sure some grad student somewhere over all the years that amalgam has been used must have had the same thought, so go find the thesis, the published paper, the draft that never got reviewed... if it should have been done, then it must be out there somewhere!

prove it. find the research. or if you can't do that, do it yourself, or commision someone to do it for you. but just stating that it should have been done won't make it so.... especially in a usenet news group. all it does is make you look like an incompetent paranoid conspiracy monger who can't do the science themselves and wants someone to hand them the answer they want to hear on a silver platter. it ain't going to happen.
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