A very disturbing conversation

Ill have to read it. so far, I disagree with his conclusion. Shrug.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

But not all, only a fraction are militant fundimental extremists.

Your side of the asle is unwilling. Personally I think the B52s should be flying as we discuss this.

If we get out now..everyone loses.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

Have you read this yet by any chance?

I believe Dr. Sowell was talking about you when he wrote this article about Useful Idiots....

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

Your biased, partisian opinion is noted, discarded and placed in a biohazard burn bag for proper disposal.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner wrote back on Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:11:22 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

There is a "third" option - submission. Second class status. "Dhimmitude".

But really, seeing as how Islam means "Submission" - his options are death, or submission, with two options when it comes to "Submitting". It may have been a bit of propaganda from the 8th century, but one thing to remember, executing the recently converted does prevent backsliding.

-- pyotr filipivich Denial is not a river in Egypt, "Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level." LTC Grossman.

On this much, you and I agree. Quit pussyfooting around and do it. Get it over with, already.

Announcement - If *ALL* hostilities have not ceased within , then _________ (Insert name of city here) becomes a crater (Glowing glass liner optional). This will repeat, with a new city picked each day fighting continues.

Leaflet the whole friggin' country so heavy it looks like a blizzard, spew it across the airwaves, blare it out of speakers mounted on choppers, paste it on billboards, whatever. Make the message clear and unmistakable to anything sentient. Then wait 10 days.

Then, on the tick after the dealine, listen for gunfire. If any is heard, call the "go".

America, considered collectively, ain't got the balls for that, though.

It's rather depressing that I, an American, need to say that.

His assessment remains correct: They're serious. We're not. Our being in or out, regardless of win or lose status, doesn't change that basic factor.

Hehehe, look in the mirror, zionazi cannon fodder.

Keep reading this until you understand it:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 08:36:19 GMT, Don Bruder vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

But doesn't anyone that _does_ have the "balls" to do that simply become part of the "axis of evil"? The "balls" to do that is accompanied by a certainty of overall rectitude that is hubris indeed, whatever the motive and however irritating the other party. It would make Saddam look like a pussy. He didn't start this. You guys did. We helped. Not arguing the rights and wrongs or the logic of the invasion here, but it does not justify obliteration of the masses if a few give you a hard time about it, on "their" soil (and yes I know they are being imported).

***************************************************** Have you noticed that people always run from what they _need_ toward what they want?????

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:11:22 GMT, Gunner calmly ranted:

Yes, and the military admit it. Troops have to be conditioned to unequivocally support every one of their leaders' commands. Crikey, Gunner, you've been there. You should know. If not, see Google and/or Amazon. I'm sure there are at least a dozen books on it by now.

hits

hits

hits

NOTE: Not all are entirely relevant, but you get the drift. ;)

Additionally, have those same pollsters go the into corporations and you'll hear more-than-real praise there, too. They use the same "team" psych methods. Besides, who is going to diss their company to people who could actually be working for the company? It's in their self-interest to stay optimistic. In any case, the results are tainted. Case dismissed.

BTW, who are my masters? (I gotta hear this.)

Ask the thousands (millions?) of American Muslims if they all want us dead. Ask the hundreds of millions of global Muslims if they want us dead. It's only the idiot fundies who do, and some of those are in non-Muslim clothing.

My respects to YOUR programmers, sir.

I wasn't in the military (Air Force brat, escaped a sentence to Nam.) have never been a liberal, and denounce the republican party nowadays. So, who are my programmers?

========================================================== CAUTION: Do not use remaining fingers as pushsticks! ==========================================================

Comprehensive Website Development

(and yes I know they are being imported).

Ahh! But that is the unintended genius of this operation.

In Vietnam, we would drop the Engineers into the center of an area the NVA and Charlie supposedly controlled. With a few dozers and a few more airlifts of troops and artillery, by sundown we had built a FSB (fire support base). The enemy just couldn't allow us to spit in his eye this way. There would be a full frontal assault by the second night. We would kick some ass and chase them back to Cambodia. And let them go. Cambodia was out of bounds.

Iraq is just a larger FSB. The bad guys are being attracted to the fight because it is in their neighborhood. Stand in the swamp and the mosquitoes will come to you.

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:09:22 GMT, Andy Asberry vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

What operation? Literally blow Iraq to pieces as long as _anyone_ shows signs of disagreeing with you? That's not what you are describing above. It is what I was replying to. In fact the smithereens response is a perfect "mosquito" )or more like hive of bees) response that the muslim martyrs would play for all it was worth, and fair enough too, IMO.

In the _original_ Gulf War I had a lot more strong feelings about simply expunging the country. Sadam was showing every sign of being actively rampant. At least three things are different now: Iraq was not really actively attacking anyone else; the US decided on a "minimal" course of action, and has completely overpowered Iraq; "we" hae Sadam.

***************************************************** Have you noticed that people always run from what they _need_ toward what they want?????

No, I think there's a unilateral concept that nuclear war is a "bad" thing.

There's no way for us to win anything here. You need to face the simple, cold, hard, pragmatic, realistic fact that the US is not going to improve its geopolitical situation as a result of this war. Quite the opposite.

You might be partly correct in saying that in the long run things might be marginally better for Iraq citizens for some short time after we leave.

Marginally. Short time.

Jim

Turn that around, and say that america as a nation is willing to go to extreme lengths, to avoid a total conflict like that. When the time comes to pull out the stops, we can do this. We've done it before, I hope we never have to do it ever again.

The basic question is, should we be involved in a war where we are not serious? The answer in southeast asia was "no."

The author of "Imperial Hubris" likewise says no.

Basically my view (that they are serious about this, we're not) is a direct extraction from that book. I think it sums up the difficulties we're encountering.

Jim

Suprising he doesn't see it, eh?

The fact that the support level is only around 70 percent really is quite amazing. If 30 percent of the armed forces personnel thing the dweeb sucks, he must *really* be doing a terrible job of commander-in-chief.

Jim

His conclusion is that the only way to win the war we're now engaged in is to wage total war. You disagree with that?

Jim

Greater nations than use have tried and failed at that task. We are ignoring all the lessons they learned in their failed attempts.

Your 'then we all go off to happy piggy-land' bedtime story has been noted and filed for future enjoyment.

Jim

Remember that a lot of the troops sent to Iraq are called up Guard and Reserve units. Since they were mostly in the civilian world before they were called up, the conditioning to unquestioning obedience that they received in basic hasn't had the constant reinforcement of active military service. They're more apt to think for themselves.

Gary

Yes, I do disagree. We won the Cold War against a far superior enemy...and I dont see miles of glowing in the dark craters.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

"greater nations than us" tried to battle the Afghanis and failed.

England, Russia for 12+ yrs, etc etc

Why are there now free elections there?

Your welcome.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry