Absolutely MARVELOUS photos of shaper restoration!!

On Mon, 13 May 2013 06:37:22 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"


I never heard of a shaper with a 30 foot stroke. I've seen a planer like that in a museum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planer_%28metalworking%29
Pete Keillor
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I saw one with a 20+ foot stroke, bid on it to scrap it, but lost.
i

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On Mon, 13 May 2013 06:37:22 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Err... the basic difference between planers and shapers is that a planer table moves and the tool is stationary while shapers are quite the opposite. Nothing that I've seen restricts one, or the other to any specific type of cut.

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Exactly. And the machine that was described had a moving tool. But no one ever seems to reads the OP. They just re-word the problem to their solution.
Lloyd
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On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:28:00 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Lloyd, here's what the OP said:

Where have you ever seen a shaper with a 30 foot travel?
I figure the OP just got confused over which part was travelling.
There were some planers with travelling gantries, but I don't think any were made in the US like that. They were late entrants, from those Eastern European countries that made all kinds of special, enormous machines, and they were used for work on huge stationary and marine engines. I saw photos of them when I was at American Machinist but I never saw one in the US.
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I haven't. I've seen them with travels in excess of 12 feet, and they were, in fact, moving-tool shapers, not planers.
On the second part -- "you figure", but instead of asking for clarification, you just refute the OP's statement.
Why? That's either calling him stupid or a liar. Why not ask?
LLoyd
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On Mon, 13 May 2013 20:25:35 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Because once he said "30 foot travel," I knew it wasn't a shaper. And having watched big planers at work, machining lathe beds, it wouldn't be hard to get confused over which part was travelling.
They don't make shapers with 30 feet of travel, Lloyd. They never did. And what would the "bridge-like affair" be, if it was a shaper?
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A traveler. In the Valejo shipyards, I saw a shaper once where the work sat flat on a twin-bed affair like a lathe bed. The cutter traveled UNDER the bed, on a separate set of ways between the two work-bed surfaces.
I don't know what it was (brand, etc), except it was a shaper. It might have been custom-built for the Navy. But it was long, the work laid flat, and the tooling moved UNDER the work.
The way it was built, it could've been 100 feet long (or a mile), and it still would've worked just the same.
Lloyd
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On Mon, 13 May 2013 20:49:06 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Oh, jeez. So what was it doing, cutting shapes, or planing surfaces?
I think you're stretching the term, although I'd have to see that one to make a point about what to call it. As I said, there have been some traveling-gantry planers made, and they were planing long, straight surfaces, like a conventional planer. If that machine you're describing is doing the same, I'd call it a planer.
But I'd have to see the workpieces.

Why are you calling it a shaper, if it's planing long surfaces?
Here's an old traveling-head planer (page 1074):
http://tinyurl.com/brzc6vm
Here's another one:
http://tinyurl.com/bu3y6eu

The terms for these machines were once based on the kind of work they do: planing, analagous to planing wood, and cutting out shapes. There were also traveling-head shapers as well as traveling-head planers; the traveling head on a shaper was intended for a different purpose, however, as the "traveling" was along a horizontal axis. It allowed the shaper to cut wider workpieces. If you go 'way back in time, there were all kinds of configurations.
Anyway, whatever the OP saw, it was a planer if it had 30 feet of travel. That's not for cutting out shapes. It's for planing long ways, cylinder heads, bending-brake tooling, and, probably the primary uses in the really old days, cutting a variety of things for the railroad and marine-equipment industries that required long straight cuts.
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It seems like _everyone_ this week taken to twisting words of a post to their own meaning so they can make their non-sequitor answers fit the problem? Not just misunderstanding a post, no; actually changing the terms to fit their arguments! Where the heck do you read the word "planing" in _anything_ I wrote? I never even IMPLIED 'planing'. The closest to that was the word 'cutter'.
It was cutting profiled grooves in large slabs of bronze, when I saw it.
I have no idea what the parts were -- if they were bushings, it seems like they'd have been better made on a lathe, even if they were clamshell style bearings. I also cannot understand the advantage of cutting the bottom-side surface, where it's impossible to check the profile, except at the very end of the slab.
It really looked like a dumb idea, but it was sitting there stroking along piling chips on the floor, so they obviously had some practical use for it.
I am only reporting it. And all I know about it is that it was ACTING as a shaper when I saw it running. Maybe it planed, too, but it could have only planed the surface to a width of the space between the bed memebers... which iirc was about 18"-24".
LLoyd
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On 2013-05-14, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

    I suspect that one advantage of that setup is the clearing of chips by pure gravity instead of either re-cutting the same chips, or needing air or flood coolant to blow them away.
    Depends on how difficult it is to get the chips out from under the machine. Perhaps there is a conveyer to do it automatically?
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:28:00 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

I was replying to the following classification of a shaper...
"Since press brake dies usually require some sort of grooved profile, and since the basic difference between 'planer' and 'shaper' is the shape of the blade and work -- shapers being relegated to grooves and edging, mostly... "
As I said, the difference is in whether the tool, or the work, moves. Not in tool shape or whether the edges are being machined.
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Those are called Planers..and work very much like shapers. With shapers the cutting tool moves over the work..with planers..the work moves under the cutter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4kPDhrhlgk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzsQnKJGYtk

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On 2013-05-12, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

So, say, you could use one to make a checkering pattern?
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On Sun, 12 May 2013 21:03:28 -0500, Ignoramus5857

A shaper would make a checkering pattern very very easily. A bit harder with a file..and pretty tough with a CNC mill
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On Sun, 12 May 2013 18:24:59 -0500, Ignoramus5857

They cut parts with it. Generally one of a kind parts that would normally involve a 5 axis CNC and very expensive tooling.
What.. you didnt know this?
Hell..Ive got one guy who cuts more parts on a shaper in a day than he does with a Haas machining center.
Odd parts...but the shaper works very nicely for them.
He clamps 100 of them in a frame and turns on the shaper. Then goes to have something to eat while its running. He claims when he ran em on the CNC it took 1.5 hours longer to run 100 parts than it does on the shaper. And he gets better finish.
Gunner
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wrote:

Iggy, I think you can figure this one out for yourself. Shapers were obsolete by 1970. Since then, most of them have been scrapped or gathered dust. And it wasn't CNC that killed them off. It was their slow part-to-part production speed.
As I said, I've seen two actually operating in commercial shops since 1974. Both were squaring up mold bases, which is a traditional job for them.
For a hobbyist, the cheap tooling is an attraction. So is cutting square-cornered internal holes, if you make falling-block rifles or valve gear for historical steam engines -- hobby work.
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What other machine could you use to cut an internal keyway in a blind hole?
John
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wrote:

If I had to cut a blind keyway, I'd probably be able to find a shop with a ram-type EDM a lot faster than I'd find one with a shaper. d8-)
Seriously, the question Iggy asked is how you would make money with a shaper. Waiting for blind-hole keyway-cutting jobs to show up is not a way to make money.
As for squaring mold bases, the only way that makes sense is if you're the customer for the mold bases and the shaper can make them faster than you need them. In other words, you're making molds and you own the shaper.
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Ed Huntress

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On Mon, 13 May 2013 21:47:36 -0400, John

<snip>
light bulb edm
rig up insulating tool holder and use mill. Slow but price is right. You can use hex or spline key as electrode to burn internal hex or spline to size. Article shows lash-up using drawer slide and all-thread for vertical movement.
http://pico-systems.com/edm.html
-----------
for fancier dedicated machine see http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/store/items/detail/item/797?noredirect=true&noredirect=true ---------- Arnold Gregrich in Home Shop Machinist (October/November 2002).

did

over

200

========http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/47448-EDM-need-diagnostic-help
-------------
Let the group know how you make out.
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Unka' George

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