Amway

Nov 03, 2009 84 Replies

Mostly suckers. I met a guy (Brig Hart, you can look him up) who made $50 million by suing Amway. See

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instance.

The gist of the thing is all the double diamonds or whatever they call the top of the pyramid make HUGE amounts of money be selling training videos, which often go for $1000 a set, to the rest of the "associates". All the people downstream are pretty much required to push these videos to all THEIR downstream. He was pretty successful with Amway, but realized the people above him were making fabulous incomes from HIS hard work selling the videos, and not cutting him in at all! Various state attorneys general have investigated Amway, and most of them say that none of the rank and file ever make ANY money at all with it.

My mother in law got into Mary Kay, and she now has $50,000 of stuff she was forced to buy to stay in the program stored in her beasement and all over her house. My daughter brings over cases of the stuff and has garage sales just to get rid of it.

My wife got involved in Brig Hart's newest venture, Monavie, some kind of rainforest berry that is supposed to be the fountain of youth or whatever. They sell it in a big green wine bottle for $40 (if you are a member). Yeah, that's right, $40 EACH bottle! How can you not make money putting a liter of fruit juice in a glass bottle for $40? So, my wife has spent some $3000 or so on the glop

- she believes all the crap they tell you, and has made me drink the glop and it's done nothing for me. Oh, yeah, one of the formulas gave her headaches! Gotta be great stuff, right?!? Anyway, it is another MLM (Multilevel Marketing system, ie. Ponzi scheme) and as usual, unless you are the first 10 people in, you can't make a buck unless you work an 80 hour week. Brig Hart has the personality to just walk up to people and you think you've known him all your life, but that is rare. (Note I don't call it a gift, I think it is a common trait among professional con men!) They give you a debit card that they are supposed to deposit your commisions in, but nobody ever gets any. There are all these insane restrictions that prevent you from ever cashing in. Like, your downline is split into the "right leg" and the "left leg". You have to have your two legs equal, or you lose all your commisions. AND, you can't transfer somebody from one leg to the other, you have to ADD a new member to balance your legs. And, if you have $1000 in commisions that are pending something, and you don't bump your sales up another notch, you lose it all. And so on..... Some people have told me that most of this organizational stuff comes straight from Amway, too.

The Amway products seem to be pretty good, but a $40 bottle of shampoo, or a $30 bottle of vitamins is just insane. I can't believe my wife laps this stuff up, she is SO gullible. She goes to this health food store, and they also have all these $30+ vitamins, too. "Oh, but this is better for you!" Look on the label, and it is all biotin this and biotin that. Check with a chemist, and some say there is no such compound. (Used to be ALL of them would say that.)

Jon

I got the Mercedes! Well, I bought the Mercedes.

About 15 years ago we bought a 1983 300SD. We were the third owner. My business partner was from Detroit and when I showed him the name of the first owner he said he was sure that was one of the founders of Amway. We still have the car.

Paul

My mom was involved in Amway for a while. I will ask her. From a product side it was just another private labeler. Since she owned a country store I never saw the wisdom of her being involved in Amway. Everything she sold with an Amway label she sold with a trade label in the store. Like being in competition with yourself. It was like being in competition with yourself, and the agreement prohibited her from putting any of the product on the shelves in the store.

I never asked her about the down line side of it, but the guy who came to sign her up was a sleazy snake oil salesman, and the down line was all he cared about. I would have thrown him off the property physically had I the choice.

I have had several friends that tried to get me to sign up, a few for Amway and a few for some other outfit that worked on a similar basis.

What I do is to say "Gee that sounds wonderful, but I am a bit skeptical, so here is what I am going to do. I am going to sign up after you can show me it works by showing me your tax return next year and when I see that you are paying taxes on $75k in profits from the Amway thing then I will be convinced that you might have something. heck because we are friends I might even buy some soap from you if you have something special."

For some reason no body that was hyped up on this has ever taken me up on the deal.

I knew a guy who sold Amway stuff out of the trunk of his car, so to speak.

I have no idea how he did money-wise, but nobody's gonna do that stuff at a loss.

One consolation; it's not a Ponzi scam because the end customer actually gets product, albeit at an inflated price.

I guess it would depend on how good of a salesman you are.

Cheers! Rich

Actually, from what I have read, most Amway "representatives" end up with a large loss, and are required to purchase expensive motivational materials and attend expensive rallies.

They also tend to alienate their friends in the process of trying to sign them up.

i

It's a cult, and like all cults, it brainwashes people into doing things to their detriment in hopes of some future (and never attainable) great reward.

[snip]

Not quite right; it's not really a Ponzi scheme

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it *is* a pyramid scheme, regardless of what the shysters say. The only way you can make money is to convince other suckers to sell stuff for you, and they in turn have to convince yet more suckers to sell stuff for them...and so on. That's what a pyramid scheme is basically. The cute concept of "selling" something provides immunity from legal entanglements, but doesn't change the basic insolvency of the scheme; the last ones to sign up will lose - every time.

My father-in-law was a big believer in Amway; never made a dime, but he could dream big anyway. As a result, we got lots of Amway products given to us; it's decent stuff, but no better than lower priced goods from the reputable manufacturers.

A friend who got involved in the 70s told me that they were all instructed on how to reply to others: when they would talk about a "business opportunity", and the "mark" would ask "Is this Amway?", the correct response was to play dumb, and reply "What's Amway?" in order to gauge how best to try and defeat the person's defenses.

I know a lot of people who have taken to calling all MLM "opportunities" "Amway schemes". If suckers stopped being born every minute, MLMs might collapse.

MLM = pyramid scheme. Always.

Joe

ps - Jon, thanks for the background on the Monavie scam.

My brother got sucked in to Amway about 15 years ago. He asked me to help him get a clean 300 series mercedes like mine, so he could "project success" to potential suckers. I told him that with me 500 miles away, he couldn't keep a car like that running without spending a lot, and if he thought it was possible that the people above him in the pyramid were showing fake flash like he intended to.

I put amway and amsoil sellers in the same class as lawyers and realtors. No time for them and their crooked "money for nothing" schemes. My brother saw the light after a few months, he always was a bit gullible.

Of course they were. I got to wonder, however, if a Mercedes 300 is really a big manifestation of success. That's a $30,000 dollar car? Or am I off with my pricing?

My pickup truck, which is not a prestige item, cost $33,000 or so, if I remember right.

I did not know that amsoil was a MLM scheme. I bought some oil from them and oil filters.

i

Back when our 1983 300SD was new, it's price was in the $45,000 range. A lot has to do with the exchange rate at the time. We bought a new

1972 VW bus for $3200. The next year the price was $4200. The only difference was the exchange rate between the dollar and the mark.

Paul

A lot of the ones that are trying to impress are paying something like $500 per month lease costs. They own nothing.

I don't know what they go for since Mercedes doesn't make anything that interests me. I think all of the so called luxury brands make a few low $ models for wannabes.

If that $30k figure is correct, there are a lot of vehicles that cost a whole lot more that aren't in the "look at me" class(less).

Amsoil frequently referred to as Scamsoil is indeed another MLM scheme. Their "independent distributors" are frequent spammers of automotive newsgroups and forums. Their oils used to not even have API certification so they would void your vehicles warranty right off the bat. I think they finally got certification on some of their oil now, if you can actually trust it, however they make absurd claims for oil change intervals so if you follow them once again your warranty is void when it's found that you have 30,000 miles on the oil and the vehicles specified oil change interval is 5,000 miles.

Amway especially, seems to be have an ingrained culture of flashing wealth (probably much of it not really owned, as you mention).

i

...

Ah! Just like Global Warmingism and Obamanism, right? >:->

Cheers! Rich

HOLD YER PHONE CALLS, FOLKS. WE HAVE A WINNER!

I disdain and avoid any sales managers who have the "cheerleader" attitude. It is contagious crowd hysteria, and some people are very good at it. And then, they take this stolen money and send their kids to dance school, and buy all sorts of flashy items, and keep up the image. They are sad people living on fluff and waiting for their balloon to burst. And they have no soul.

Steve

Yes, and also, I think that it illustrates a saying "you cannot cheat an honest man".

i

Sounds like the current Governor of Oregon!

Paul

Sounds like the current President of the Unitd States!

Cheers! Rich

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