Any lawyers on the list?

||If you sent payment through a credit card, you can make a complaint, and may ||be able to get the charge reversed.

My experience has been that only American Express will go to bat for the cardholder. Amex apparently considers the cardholder as their customer. MC/Visa will reverse a charge, but it takes more than a bloody glove to make it stick. When it's your word against the business (who pays MC/visa) you will lose. For MC/Visa, the business owner is their customer, and money trumps fair play every time.

Rex in Fort Worth

I had a buyer pay with certified mail, his idea was that if I was going to screw him he could go the mail fraud route. I am an honest ebay seller so its a non issue but his thinking was interesting.

I agree with Jim about using the mail system. If I have any concerns about a seller I always pay with a postal money order. Vince

jim rozen wrote:

A co-worker had a problem with someone once, and had talked the guy into giving him a small token refund by check. He had to go to court to get a judgment, but I believed he skipped the "forms of discovery" because he already knew the guys checking account number (and bank) from the check. He said the guy was surprised when the money was removed from his account.

Vince

John Hofstad-Parkhill wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2004 04:07:38 GMT, Shiver Me Timbers shouted from the rooftop:

You only get 'buyer protection' if you have signed up for it and it does not extend to used merchandise.

-Carl "An honest man doesn't need a long memory"- Jesse Ventura

A friend's brother works for ebay, formerly in paypal fraud prevention. If you like I could dig up his address and see if he might offer any help.

I haven't read the rest of tonights postings yet, did you pay through paypal by any chance? If you did, my friend's brother could maybe get him shut down permanently.

StaticsJason

You don't get it, Richard J Kinch. This is not about extravagance. Nor is it about self-indulgence, nor non-productive hobby. This is about stealing, dishonesty, cheating, and lying. All things which are, in some form, criminal acts. Have you raised any children? If so, is that the type of attitude you instilled in them? The justice system is generally bad enough, just giving a slap on the wrist. You don't seem to think *any* attempt at punishment should be made. Suppose someone doctored a machine that YOU purchased. What then? Live and learn? Oh, but you're likely much, much too smart and canny to get the wool pulled over your eyes. Someday, no matter how sharp, no matter how careful you think you are, someone will be a little more sly than thee.

No sympathy from me.

Reverend Horton Heat

Sadly, payment was by personal check, which cleared before they shipped, terms to which we had agreed thinking we were dealing with honest people.

I'm interested in any kind of help that is legal. I'd like to follow my inside feelings and off the bastards, but that isn't rational. I'm going to make their life as uncomfortable as I possibly can by asking people that frequent eBay to boycott them. I'm going to hit them exactly when it hurts, when they offer their next lot of live auctions. It will be impossible for buyers to miss or ignore, and it will cost less than $5 to pull off. Mean time, I'm filing claim after claim through any entity that has the slightest of jurisdiction, each one after the previous one is laid to rest. They keep denying any wrong doing, suggesting that I am the one that has altered the photo or used trick photography of the repaired area, which is absurd. Most of these entities are not judges, so if they get feedback that appears to be reasonable, they seem to just ignore the problem. Clearly, criminals have all the rights these days.

mean time, if they don't mind their name getting dirty, I'm more than happy to oblige them. Hell, everyone needs a hobby.

Harold

Catching hell Harold? There's always someone.

Its those who are willing to de-grease the wheels that make it a somewhat saner place. Thing is that I seem to end up being the one to re-grease it. Its repaired not as new.

Hell yes!

Business name:

Myers Antiques & Fine Arts

1600 4th St N Saint Petersburg, FL 33704-4302 727-823-3249 or 727-823-3248

Michael J. Myers, and his wife, Mary Dowd

How I wish he was local so I could pull that one off! I'm going to do my eBay version of the same thing, though. By the way, here's a link that leads to the item in question. If you're interested, I can send you a pic of the repaired area that was not disclosed. Nothing done to alter its appearance aside from lighting it from the side. These bastards were really underhanded in what they did.

Thanks for your concern, Lane.

Harold

[ ... ]

I'm glad to see that this has already been suggested, and I second it. Hopefully, the seller has not already removed the images from their web site -- or you have already printed your copies.

It is a shame that something like this has to happen to

*anyone*.

I wish you the best of luck in dealing with this. DoN.

I'm sorry I thought it was the other way around, that you were on the east coast and the business was in Washington state. My bad!

Lane

Frankly, I'd rather picket the guy.

My sentiments, exactly. What the hell is wrong with a society where honest people get screwed over and the criminals have all the rights? Here in Washington State, after 30 years of killing, and over 60 victims, the Green River killer was recently apprehended and convicted. He volunteered information in exchange for his life. Some poor schnook kills someone in the heat of passion and gets executed, while this guy systematically killed and molested dead bodies for years, and gets away with his life? Broken is the word. Badly broken may be a little more accurate.

Thanks for the support!

Harold

[ ... ]

It looks as though the images are still present. I find some things interesting here:

1) Looking at the bid history, I see only one live bid from the auction floor, but based on the amount that person bid, it was either someone who had not checked it out carefully enough, or someone who did not know the field. 2) A very interesting response to your complaint:

====================================================================== Fraudulent misrepresentation of item. Contact snipped-for-privacy@tds.net for full details.

Buyer vordoinwa( 101) Mar-24-04 22:44 2218187309

Reply by myersfineart: Accurate representation of item Offered full refund & buyer declined. Oh well Mar-27-04 08:56 ======================================================================

Based on that, you were offered a chance to return it for a refund and you turned it down. However, you told us that you were refused a refund. I think that if you have the e-mails saved, you have some extra evidence of misrepresentation, here.

Best of luck, DoN.

Geese. And I though Ed Huntress was an arrogant ass at times..... looks like you beat him to Best of Class.

Gunner

"A vote for Kerry is a de facto vote for bin Laden." Strider

My interests are not important at all. I'm sure your wife is a fine and virtuous woman. I have no disdain, only respect, for both of you and your hobbies. Collecting useless stuff is a fine hobby. Most of us have one or more such pursuits.

But your error is in pursuing your dispute at law, out of vengence, or "the principle of the thing". Based on your description of the situation, you have no reasonable hope of any economic recovery. All you can do is harass the crook in an attempt to get even by inflicting harm on him, not that it will do you any good. You are clinging to and cherising this injustice. If you are honestly self-interested, you will forget all this and move on.

What I do disdain is getting all uppity-righteous over silly possesions like "art glass". Look, there's nothing wrong with collecting it, but fer cryin out loud, is IT WORTH THE LEAST UPSET IN YOUR LIFE? NO.

Yes, I would *feel* the same way. But I would hope that I would follow the principles that I have learned over the years, that in civil disputes, one must coldly assess the economic return from going to law for a recovery. Usually when one is cheated, the scale is too small to be worth legal action. Or the adversary is too well defended. The rational man forgets it and moves on. The hot-tempered man swears vengeance at any civil cost as you have done.

No, you misunderstand. Learn to major in the majors and minor in the minors. In life's scheme, this is a minor, and you should drop it. Otherwise, you are straining at gnats. Unhealthy, and unhappy.

This could amount to a criminal act of slander. All based on a breezy newsgroup discussion that omits the other side. Why would you as a stranger get involved in this man's quarrel, over a chintzy collectible of all things?

Very bad idea. This can do you no possible good, and invites great harm. Only very bad judgment, or neurosis, could account for such action.

I have a USAA issued Mastercard, and was once screwed by a seller via Paypal. I was attempting to purchase a TiVo upgrade as a gift for my brother, and after a whole lot of research decided to go with some guy by the name of "PVRJoe" who seemed to have nothing but good reviews, both on eBay and in various Usenet groups. Despite that, I got screwed. An order was made (not through eBay), payment was issued, and then all went silent. I attempted contact via telephone and e-mail but got nothing. I called the credit card company to file a chargeback, to which they said I should go through Paypal's system first, and so I did. Paypal, of course, did nothing. They "ruled in my favor" but said they couldn't collect. Called back the credit card company, they sent me a form to fill out about what happened. Sent it back, and a short while later was refunded my money. It was the least hassle of the entire situation, actually. Papal then sent me a nasty letter saying I should have used their complaint system first (which as I stated I had already done) and then threatened to cancel my account. Which would suit me fine, as I've experienced nothing but misery from their services.

In this case, it wasn't my word against the guy who got my money. It was my word against Paypal's, and yet I still was refunded the money ($250) I spent. So I don't think it's fair to say that only American Express will be on the side of the cardholder. In the end, it's more about the bank that issues the card. USAA will most definitely take your side in these matters. And really, the card company gets their money either way since they take a chunk of the transaction every time it happens. In some cases they take a percent of the sale as well as the chargeback, which basically means the vendor pays them twice and gets nothing.