gauge railway workshop to yard

Wider base is more stable. Maybe if the equipment has drop legs for stability when in use the track width is less of an issue.

Hello all

Yup really niche question this.

Friend re-concreting his workshop floor, and intends to lay mine-railway tracks in it. Which runs out into the yard and enables machines which make a mess to be wheeled-out from stored safe and dry in the workshop to working some distance away given associated dust when running.

Two gauges seem to be in use here - 18inch and 2ft (24inch) (* 18 25.4) ;; 457.2 ;; 457 mm gauge (* 24 25.4) ;; 609.5999999999999 ;; 610 mm gauge

Wheels & wagons etc available both gauges. Though 18inch maybe more common in the very compact tin mines (the lodes are narrow).

Anyone know of an argument to choose one gauge over another?

I'd have thought maybe the smaller gauge as seems big enough for smallish hammer-mill, etc.; takes less space; and can have tighter corners outside the workshop.

What experience does anyone have suggesting best choice?

Regards, Rich S

------------------------------------- Other than my sawmill and gantry hoist much of my machinery is on rubber shod casters, not rails, to be rolled into the asphalt driveway or even the grass. I suggest the widest available track gauge to reduce the chance of an upset, as when pushing a heavy plank through a table saw, and some sort of parking brake. I replaced the casters on my 4x6" bandsaw with larger wheels outside the base.

Does he have space for a switching yard, or a travelling overhead hoist to load them on and off the rails?

In theatre construction I learned ways to put heavy scenery on temporary wheels. The simplest is to hinge a board with the casters mounted on one side to opposing sides of the base . You lift a side and flip the caster board in or out with a toe. With the casters folded in the object sits flat and immobile on the floor. If it's hard to grasp and lift the caster boards can be hinged under the base and lowered to lift and move the load by stepping on and bracing the outer end. Perhaps the most capable is 3 or 4 telescoping trailer tongue jacks as crank-down landing gear. Though fairly expensive they can be moved between machines. I move some items that weight several hundredweight by having wheels on one end and a trailer coupler on the other.

Rails and ties/sleepers such as on my sawmill are a nuisance when walking around a machine and when sweeping up swarf.

On 6/7/2024 2:10 PM, Richard Smith wrote: ...

Wider base is more stable. Maybe if the equipment has drop legs for stability when in use the track width is less of an issue. Bob La Londe CNC Molds N Stuff

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I put one of these fold-away telescoping legs under the beam of my log splitter to adjust it to a comfortable working height yet not be in the way (much) when the beam is on the ground to roll very heavy wet wood onto it.

Thanks for replies. You'd probably timber the ends of a wagon - timber between ground and frame of wagon. To be honest, gauge will come down to what is available.

The ease of moving things on steel-rail wagons... In the hobby mine I've experienced you can easily push several hundred kilos then the wagon - sometimes much of a tonne. If you wanted to use the workshop in no reference to the machines you could easily push them outside for the time being.

I was serendipetously casting for anything I hadn't thought of.

As a kid there were still flourspar mines around - one had an adit access with probably 18inch gauge track and a battery electric loco - as I remember. Coming across it when they were working. How could I have been there in a weekday as a school kid... Else they were working overtime on a Saturday morning. A brickworks had a little railway which went for miles getting clay. Could see lines. Still ran the WW1 supply railway equipment, so would be 2ft gauge - think they were called "Simplexes" - little petrol / gasoline motor.

I was one of those kids lost on this "interest" - compensation was as reached upper teenage, realised I had a map and timescale of the industrialisation of the world - rather useful :-)

While on the topic - if you were renewing railway track in a mine, expedience the only concern - what would you use? The low rolling resistance and being able to simply push wagons to a tonne weight along levels you cannot stick your elbow out in is fundamentally advantageous. Saw on a US website that still sell rails for mine railways. For infrequent hobby use you would use? Access into mine limited - no adit (horizontal) access nor sloping decline - is shaft only. Wondered whether you could lower flat bar (rectangular section) down the shaft in long lengths and weld to steel "ties" to make a functioning railway (not going to need expansion joints down there - not many frosts and not much "solar gain" on heatwave days!). Saw on a video a coal mine in Pakistan where they use angle-iron for rails - shows rope-worked decline the wagons come to surface along. Which I take it is cost-justified? There are points / switches - cannot have double-flanged wheels to self-stabilise track, for what it's worth... And yes the tracks do snake around with curves in following the lodes.

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@void.com...

While on the topic - if you were renewing railway track in a mine, expedience the only concern - what would you use? The low rolling resistance and being able to simply push wagons to a tonne weight along levels you cannot stick your elbow out in is fundamentally advantageous. Saw on a US website that still sell rails for mine railways. For infrequent hobby use you would use? Access into mine limited - no adit (horizontal) access nor sloping decline - is shaft only. Wondered whether you could lower flat bar (rectangular section) down the shaft in long lengths and weld to steel "ties" to make a functioning railway (not going to need expansion joints down there - not many frosts and not much "solar gain" on heatwave days!). Saw on a video a coal mine in Pakistan where they use angle-iron for rails - shows rope-worked decline the wagons come to surface along. Which I take it is cost-justified? There are points / switches - cannot have double-flanged wheels to self-stabilise track, for what it's worth... And yes the tracks do snake around with curves in following the lodes.

-------------------------------- Angle iron track appears to be common on home made sawmills with rolling bandsaw heads. The V grooved wheels can be turned on a lathe. Mine uses 3" C channel for track because it was available cheaply from a surplus store, as dismantled pallet racks. Since I have machine tools I don't need to seek perfect solutions to problems, I can make what's needed to adapt to what's available.

All connections are bolted on at least one side rather than welded to ease disassembly and keep splice fittings small enough to fit in a milling machine vise. After drilling a splice plate's bolt pattern accurately on the mill I clamp it to the aligned rails outdoors on sawhorses and match-drill the holes into the rails, usually tapping them to minimize fiddling with small fasteners in awkward places, like next to wherever huge logs came to rest. The bolts are turned to a thread root diameter pilot on the ends to help align and start them with one free hand.

I found it easier on the back and knees to assemble several track section (24') on sawhorses and lower them into place with a portable folding tripod hoist. The ties have leveling screws at the ends to accommodate uneven ground and the hoist helps to align and level the track before screwing the levelers down to contact.

Being a sawmill there are no sideways curves and I'm careful to eliminate vertical ones, so I can't help there. The logs rest on supports that are separate from the carriage track.

I used 3/8" bolts wherever possible so I need to carry only one size wrench in my pocket.

If you use rope or cable to pull the carts snatch blocks like this are very useful, as they can be placed on or taken off an already tensioned line as needed. Braided cotton rope is easier on the hands than synthetic or manila.

--------------------------------- I've been changing from steel to synthetic winch cable which has better handling properties, mainly no sharp broken ends, also it isn't stiff and springy and stays in place on the winch spool.

Strong rope is available in nylon which stretches a lot and absorbs shocks, and polyester which doesn't. The breaking strengths are similar. In mountaineering they are called Dynamic and Static. For most purposes I prefer braided polyester when I can find it.

This sliding/locking knot and the cord suitable for it are very useful.

For infrequent hobby use you would use?

------------------------ Major considerations for me were covered compact storage of 8' and 10' lengths and being able to hand carry every component of the sawmill and overhead gantry(s) and assemble them anywhere on my hilly, wooded property without a helper. These meant that the sawmill track rails aren't permanently attached to the cross ties and the two 16' gantry hoist tracks are in four 8' sections of C channel spliced together, the equivalent W section beam being too heavy to lift and move off-road. Except for the 10' tripods of 2" conduit and the square tube sawmill wheel frame the material was scrap that I found by accident and decided on the spot could be useful somehow, details TBD.

While on the topic - if you were renewing railway track in a mine, expedience the only concern - what would you use?

------------------------ First, the Internet.

Angle / v-groove is common for rolling gates too.

Angle / v-groove is common for rolling gates too. Bob La Londe

---------------------------- This appears able to calculate the moment of inertia of rotated angle stock, to figure the sag between sleepers.

Good point!

Hello all

Yup really niche question this.

Friend re-concreting his workshop floor, and intends to lay mine-railway tracks in it. Which runs out into the yard and enables machines which make a mess to be wheeled-out from stored safe and dry in the workshop to working some distance away given associated dust when running.... Anyone know of an argument to choose one gauge over another?

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After thinking about it more, I'd much rather have a level paved walkway wide enough to allow rotating machines for long stock clearance or putting cut marks in sunlight and letting one pass another, inside and out. Indoors machines on swivel casters can be pushed sideways against each other, like my welding equipment. My basement (cellar) is at ground level in front and I roll the equipment into the driveway to make sparks or sawdust. (Not "and")

Currently I'm cutting 6"x6"x16' oak beams that are difficult to maneuver even outside in the yard, around the house and up the hill into the woods to store them under cover. I suppose the best answer depends somewhat on the size/weight of his equipment (hammer-mill?) and what he makes, for me the longest steel assembly to be hoisted, drilled and handled is the 24' sawmill track. The heavyweight chip makers are the lathe and mill which are top heavy and spread sharp metal chips I don't really want scattered outdoors. "Mice" such as these are available to roll seriously heavy industrial machinery:

A shop crane can become a self-loading trailer by putting planks to support the load across the legs and a trailer coupler on the mast end. Mine lifts

The peril of having narrow gauge tracks:

Advantage of railway tracks over castors/wheels is can go far beyond the shed without big civils - tonnes of concrete making level roads, etc. ?

Hammer mill 15HP drive and definitely "industrial".

There is left-over mine-gauge equipment seeking a good home here, and maybe some nostalgia in actually having a bit of line.

This is driven by my wanting to actually experience the realities of mineral processing. Start with a heap of "rocks" and end up with some metallic minerals. I'm getting better at spotting things. Beach walk Saturday - saw some "dirty" quartz and took samples to mine museum. Yes is mineralised - lot of iron. Someone guessed where it had come from, saying there was a drift mine off the beach (saw it - thought it was a drainage adit) which got about 50 tonnes of lead (?) before being abandoned. Some folk have piles of ore where can process some every now-and-again.

Red River flowing clear these days despite South Crofty pumping-out - treat the water coming out of the mine to essentially drinking water grade, which dilutes down what's going into the adit from other mines. Great County Adit still runs very "ironey" - comes out near where I live.

Volunteering at mine museum - they want to make some replicas as best possible given photos of equipment around the headframe. Given they are putting up a conserved timber headframe at the museum - last one used in Cornwall. The cage for the main shaft, etc.

Best wishes to all, Rich Smith

A very different "mining" method you may find of interest :)

"Jim Wilkins" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes: ......

Advantage of railway tracks over castors/wheels is can go far beyond the shed without big civils - tonnes of concrete making level roads, etc. ?

Hammer mill 15HP drive and definitely "industrial".

There is left-over mine-gauge equipment seeking a good home here, and maybe some nostalgia in actually having a bit of line.

---------------------------- I slanted my response toward having many pieces of swarf generating equipment to move outdoors, possibly simultaneously, such as a table or radial arm saw, thickness planer, edge jointer and bandsaw. If the hammer mill is the only one I see the advantage of the track. I still think that if permanent it's an obstruction above ground and a maintenance issue if sunk in level like a road crossing. The ground here is compacted glacial till with high bearing strength that supports heavy loads on rigid wheels pretty well without needing paved paths. My wheeled equipment wouldn't do as well on the usual softer lawn topsoil.

I attached the lower flange of the sawmill track to the sleepers with lag screws and washers to make disassembly fast and easy. The track is assembled on sawhorses because the joint bolt holes need precise alignment and the sleepers can be installed from below, and then lowered with a tripod hoist, but disassembled in place with a socket on an extension and a battery drill or tee handle. My DIY 'garden' shed is tall enough inside to store the 8' track sections in a compact bundle upright in a corner. It's taxed on square footage, not height or volume.

I think the same scheme would work with longer track in sections because supporting some of the weight with the hoist should allow moving an end into alignment with one hand and starting the bolts with the other. The 3" channel with bolted splices is stiff enough to hang a 24' length from the center as long as the sleepers and sling keep the channel upright, but not if it's allowed to turn sideways.

My sleepers are 8' apart, at the joints and ends, because the saw carriage isn't that heavy and the logs are supported separately. Closer ones for a heavier load could be slid into place with the partly assembled track hoisted slightly. The folding tripods with lever chain hoists enable many heavy tasks.

During WW1 the BEF laid track in trenches under slit turf during the night and folded the turf back in place before dawn, so heavy long range railway artillery could be moved close to the front at night without its emplacements being photographed and accurately mapped as targets for counterbattery fire by the Germans.

As to your other post, these are my snatch blocks. They differ from regular pulleys in that they can be opened and placed over the line anywhere instead of threaded from the end, not possible with attached hooks. For towing a vehicle they may need chain shackles to connect to webbing straps unless the vehicle has tow or tiedown hooks/loops, like vehicles shipped overseas.

The design is simple enough to make from stainless with a lathe and drill press for permanent outdoor use, or these can be converted into snatch blocks by drilling out the hole crimp.

My minimalist vehicle extraction equipment is a tow rope/strap, a folding Army shovel and a camping wood saw that can cut a small dead tree trunk to use as a lever. Also a hatchet, but the saw is more useful. Rocks leaned against a tire may roll into the pit when the axle is levered up. The lever may be able to pull the tow strap with its end jammed into the ground. When motorcycle camping I substituted a sturdy trowel (tent peg, kickstand foot, fire extinguisher). I've retrieved a street motorcycle from a softer-than-expected spot by sawing sticks into caterpillar tracks to roll on.

A recip saw blade reshaped to cross-cut with a triangular file can become a very compact emergency saw. I made a sheath that doubles as its handle. While I was designing a custom dynamic memory controller IC at the vendor's facility the workstation failed, and the replacement power supply wouldn't fit its slot until I trimmed it with this home made saw. The high and the low of technology!

A very different "mining" method you may find of interest :)

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Some of the firewood I burn has so much mineralization in the bark that it remains as a grey shell after the wood is gone.

This is driven by my wanting to actually experience the realities of mineral processing. Start with a heap of "rocks" and end up with some metallic minerals. I'm getting better at spotting things.

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Small ore samples can be analyzed and smelted to metal with little more than a candle, jet of breath air and charcoal.

I also used the blowpipe and a candle to make tiny glass animals for my girlfriend. Fragments of the broken milk glass lamp globe in the dorm bathroom became speckled like a fawn when overheated.

Wet chemical analysis is somewhat more definitive and thorough, but it requires chemicals no longer easily available, and hazardous waste disposal. The simpler Qualitative analysis shows what's there, the more involved Quantitative analysis measures how much, on a sensitive weighing scale.

This very nice sighting compass was required for the agricultural students.

Those are nice! I have their Duo with Clinometer added on. Sadly the Clinometer is a bit sticky and I didn't figure out the flaw till it was too late to return it. Compass works great. They even include a

The Silva Ranger Compass works quite well too :)