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Hmm.. Did it look like junk mail? I consider that to be free heating, so I sign up for all I can. Think about it. Free fuel sent right to your door.
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On 3/23/2014 3:34 PM, Scout wrote:

I did that for 10 years.. I built an outside wood fires boiler and then I burned my trash in it along with about 10 cord of wood every year.
It cut my LP gas bills by a bunch. I could burn anything that I could fit in the fire box that was 24 inches high by 16 inches wide by 4 feet long.
Logs, tires, trash, plastic bottles of oil or cooking grease. Old wood shipping pallets. If it burned it heated my house. I was even signing up to get more junk mail. I had pallets from the place I worked since they thew them away in the dumpster along with boxes.
I burned it all out back 60 feet from the house.
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On 3/23/2014 3:56 PM, BeamMeUpScotty wrote:

I knew some folks who had outdoor boiler, a couple decades ago. They used auto radiator and fan to release the heat into the house, under ground water lines to carry the hot water from the boiler.
Don't steel belted radials leave a lot of steel in your fire box? Were you able to get polyester tires?
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Many people still do. Absolutely the bomb for radiant heating, but hot water baseboards or another AC evaporator core in your central unit works just fine as well. Indeed with either radiant or baseboards you can get individual room temperature control, it's not unlimited but you generally can set it from brisk to sweltering.
With forced draft combustion the energy extraction is quite high and you can burn things most people would consider unsuitable such as pine, cedar and other softwoods. Sure, less heat per cord but much more renewable as well.
They even have corn stoves that use shelled corn in a sort of pellet stove format. Haven't seen one of those in operation, but they sound interesting. Readily accessible fuel, easily handled, stored and used with minimal muss or fuss. In an emergency, can provide a supply of food...if not particularly tasty.

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posted some

I'm a wood pellet stove convert. Sat in a restaurant in Oregon next to one when it was raining and chilly outside during a fishing trip. This thing had an automatic feeder and it put out some heat.
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Pellet stoves are quite nice as long as you don't overfill the hopper.
The problem is they don't readily lend themselves to DYI fuel supplies since it takes a certain amount of machinery and a ready supply of sawdust to generate.
In the old days, sawdust could be had for hauling it off....not any more.
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On 3/27/2014 9:17 PM, Scout wrote:

With the changing society, different fuels become available. I'd be careful about pellet stove, if the pellet makers quit, you're out of luck. Of course, same can be said for LPG and a few other heat sources. I see LPG and 220 VAC being around for a while.
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Every year something disrupts the supply of pellets, but lately that's happened with fuel oil too, and our natural gas price spiked. http://www.topix.com/forum/city/brattleboro-vt/T4RSHIMGEVEG0ERUV http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/1030836-469/wood-pellet-panic-shortage-has-tensions-high.html http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/1030392-469/problems-again-reported-by-fuller-oil-customers.html http://www.unionleader.com/article/20140304/NEWS05/140309737/1007/news05
This month has been renamed "Marchuary". Where is the Global Warming we were promised?
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On 3/28/2014 9:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Try crushing Pecan shells..... They burn.
You can buy a pellet making machine but it's expensive, then you can make dried hay/grass pellets.
I did buy rabbit food that's pellets and it's just semi dry alfalfa. I would buy a pellet machine and plant alfalfa if I still had the acreage and a larger number of animals than I had in the past. Oh and alfalfa pellets are good for chicken food additive in the winter and rabbits and goats as far as I know, I don't know if they can be mixed with cow and horse feeds and you can always try to sell the extra to the local feed store.
But the point is that you can pelletise anything to eat or burn that you you can dry and shove it into the pellet machine. You may need to add water and then dry the pellets some later....
It may be worth it if you exploit the machine to the maximum and sell pellets for (Food and fire) to other people.
You can probably pelletise old newspaper and phone books and cardboard scrap. the problem may be shredding it fine enough to be used by the pellet machine.
Maybe you can change the pellet die and make larger pellets too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?vLq63ak0Fmw

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On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 14:46:34 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty

People here have bought these stoves for heat if power fails. I have one also and it requires power to work. Has a battery but not sure how long that would work.
This is off topic a little but does anyone here know how Obama's suggested rules for these stoves is going to work.
In the basement I have a old log stove will people be able to keep and use these stoves?

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On 3/28/2014 3:25 PM, MattB wrote:

Load your fire wood in the front when the power is out, use the feeder when the power is on. Nothing is perfect.
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Doesn't work with a pellet stove.
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On 3/28/2014 4:10 PM, Scout wrote:

A solar panel, two deep cycle golf cart batteries, and an inverter can easily handle the electrical needs of most pellet stoves.
http://blog.magnumheat.com/2011/03/01/how-much-electricity-does-it-take-to-run-my-pellet-stove/
Electrical Usage for Magnum & Country Flame Pellet Stoves
The igniter for a MagnuM Baby Countryside stove uses 175 watts and it normally takes three to five minutes to light wood pellets in a stove (it may take longer in some cases) and the igniter runs for ten minutes. The igniter takes .175kw x .08 = 1.4 cents. If the igniter is on for ten minutes it would take only ten out of sixty minutes in an hour so 1/6 x 1.4 cents = .233 cents per lighting cycle. The use of the igniter on a Magnum Pellet stove will vary with individual usage, but if it went through a relight cycle twenty times in a day it would take .233 cents x 20 = 4.66 cents or less than a nickel a day (with wet or poor fuel it may take 2-3 cycles for the unit to light properly).
The fan motors, auger motor and stirrer motor (if standard) take approximately 2.5 amps to 3.0 amps to operate. Voltage x amps = watts, so 110v x 2.75 amps = 303 watts of usage per hour. With the average price of a kilowatt at $0.08, the average electrical cost to run a stove would be .303kw x .08 = 2.42 cents per hour. If a stove ran for 24 hours in a day it would use approximately 58 cents per day (2.42 cents x 24 hours X.176 cents). Many times a stove is not needed or used 24 per day, so the actual cost would be based on the actual hours a stove is used by a homeowner?if it was used 12 hours per day the electrical cost would be about 29 cents per day.
It should be noted that the fan for the heater exchanger on a Magnum stove does a good job of pushing the heat into the room and helps to circulate heat in a house?especially in a lower level or a basement where hot air rises throughout a structure. Magnum Pellet stoves also give off radiant heat (like the hot heat of the sun) in addition to convection heat. Compared to wood stoves or heating appliances without a blower, you get better heat circulation with a corn stove (in many cases higher thermal efficiencies with a corn stove). A forced air furnace and some other forms of heating also need a blower to move the hot air around a structure and will take as much or more electricity than a corn stove. Although electric baseboard heat does not need a blower, the average electrical usage will be much higher than a corn stove to heat a comparable area.
Note: These calculations do not include meter fees and other charges from an electric company. Voltage will vary from 110 volts to 120 volts and at start up there is a slightly higher electrical draw. For more information on electrical usage for appliances you can visit or ?Google? various websites or contact your electric company.
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Not for very long.
A typical deep cycle golf cart battery is 30Ahr, or 360Whrs....based on a 20 hour discharge rate.
However, if the discharge rate is faster than that the amount the battery can supply will be less.
So 2 batteries can, at best supply 720Whrs or 36 Watts/hour at 20hr rate.

At 3-5 minutes that is
9-15 W/hrs for each igniter cycle. Probably not significant.

303 Watts per hour.
Please note our batteries only have a MAXIMUM of 360 watts over a 20 hour discharge cycle.
Now if we assume our inverter is 92% efficient. That means for our 303 watts out, we need 330 watts in.
In short, your batteries would last, at best about 2 hours. However since this is 10 times faster than the specified 20 hour discharge rate you would probably get no more than 75% of the battery capacity. So call it 90 minutes. Then your batteries are flat, the stove stops working and the house starts to cool off.
Meanwhile, you would likely need at a solar panel rated at no less than 500 watts to run the stove during the day as well as recharge your battery for your brief night usage.
Trust me, I went through all this when rigging my system for solar power usage. There is a reason I use a massive forklift battery for my storage and I really could use a second one.
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On 3/28/2014 6:35 PM, Scout wrote:

That is an AWESOME reply!
Thank you for sharing your expertise and for sizing the equipment to match.
I would say an off-grid system is certainly feasible, then I'd hire YOU to do it!
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Not a problem. Hated to shoot you down, but most people don't realize how little energy current batteries actually store. That is the biggest weakness of DIY electrical generation.....a lack of a means for adequate energy storage.
The most obvious solution is to dump it into the grid, but that really doesn't help much since you generally sell at wholesale prices and then buy it back at retail. So you have to dump in massive amounts more than you use in order to overcome your inability to store it adequately. Of course, in a few places they force the electric companies to pay full retail price, but that's not really fair to them since they can get an equal amount of power cheaper, and at full retail they make nothing on the deal despite the fact they have all the overhead and STILL have to supply you power when you're not generating. Plus the grid interface is a couple of thousand dollars and absolutely necessary.
The day someone comes out with a 'shipstone' storage cell, it will change the world.
Shipstone - A theoretical energy storage device by Robert A. Heinlein that could store massive amounts of electrical power in very high energy density device that could be made in a massive variety of sizes and capacities.
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On 3/28/2014 11:33 PM, Scout wrote:

Make use of wind generators they work at night.
At night use a 10 ton rock and some block and tackle to run a generator like an old grand father clock runs... you crank it up with a block and tackle by hand and then it turns a DC motor all night as it falls that generates electric. Use a gravity generator.
Or pump water into a BIG tank all day with solar and let it fall all night. use two tanks and pump the water from one to the other and make it a slow rotating 1 revolution per day solar powered engine.
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Assuming 20 feet elevation that equals 533,374.8 joules or about 148 watt/hours assuming 100% efficiency in your conversion to electrical energy.
His golf cart battery holds more energy.

10 tons of water equals 317 gallons from the above calculation we know that equals 148 watt/hours.
A golf cart battery is 360 watt/hours which equals 771 gallons of water at 20 feet.
To equal both of his batteries you would need a 1,542 gallon tank weighing some 49 tons with the water having an average height of 20 feet above the ground.
Like I said, energy storage is a bitch........
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On 3/29/2014 12:53 PM, Scout wrote:

That seems like it's workable to me.... With more solar and wind it could be pumped fast enough to create two or three revolution.
So you have the power of two or three batteries each day... and I worked with stuff that weighed 10 ton and it's serious but NOT impossible (ever been to coral castle in Florida) it was built by one man.
Ever seen the Pyramids in Egypt.... moving 10 ton is NOT imposable. The question is how long will the engine you build last and are you willing to invest into a power source that you will likely die before you recoup the money from it? It can pay for its self, it just may take a long long time.
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On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:28:58 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty wrote:

You are changing the rules. (and you have just left the realm of science and engineering.) You are saying if you had more energy to start with, you wouldn't need as much energy because you could use it twice.
1. For starters, you don't need storage if you're currently generating. If your storage comes from solar, it's mindless to use the storage when the sun is shining. It might be a short term boost but that comes out of your later capacity.
2. Draining your gravity reserves when there is solar power available is counter productive. You will be using solar derived power from your reserves at the same time you are using solar power to replenish the reserves. TANSTAAFL.
3. The only energy source that HAS revolutions/cycles is solar. There is no way to mess with the timing of what's there. With wind you get what you get, when you get it. No messing with that either other than having enough storage to hold you until the next wind comes along.

Tell us how it's done. I've read some theories but I think it's still qualified as a mystery.

Tell us how it's done. Again, lots of theories on this one, they all seem to have one or more holes in them. Personally, I like cranes on sky hooks tethered to flying saucers, piloted by Masons and Templar's. GPS guidance courtesy of the Illuminati.
Or will necessity be the mother of invention for you, just in time, after TSHTF? "Could be if you knew how" is another free lunch.
In any case, better have lots of farm land to feed all that slave labor. Hey, I know, use the slaves instead of storage energy to get your work done. Feed them well and they are self reproducing so forever maintenance is not a big issue and requires little engineering.
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