Metrication advocates are at it again

Living through this change over in Australia, here are some observations I noticed. Some things changed over very quickly, others still haven't changed.

Metric dimensions on machining was pretty easy, because the imperial measurements were usually decimal anyway. Our lathes had new collars engraved for the handwheels, in metric. This was fine unless you needed to traverse more than one rev of the feed screw, when the metric changeover point occured at an odd number, because the feed screw was still imperial. DRO's fixed that.

BA threads finally made sense, but no one used them anymore!

If you need a nicely rounded thread form for fatigue resistance, you have to go to something exotic, which is a pity, because we already had whitworth threads.

Pipe threads stayed put, and so did the pipe, but with really odd metric sizes on them.

Fractional inch measurements went almost instantly, can't recall even hearing a negative comment from the works carpenters ( more like cabinet makers) who were glad to stop jiggling 32 nds around in their heads. Ask them to hand you a pice of 50 by 25, and they would hand you a bit of 2 by 1 though. Some of them would hand it to you faster than others.

Road speed signs, kilometers were accepted pretty quick, don't hear many talking mph these days, unless they have been watching drag races, where metric doesn't seem to fit at all. This also gave more speeds, used to be

35, 45, 55 mph, now 60, 70, 80, 90 and 110 kmh. The 70, in particular, was a welcome addition, lifting some 35mph sections up a bit over their initial 60 kph conversion..

Number and letter drills were replaced by metric drills at 0.1 mm steps, thats 4 though a step, no one in our shop seemed to miss those. If you go to the local hardware store today, you will find plenty of fractional imperial drill sets, and just lately, some metric ones. The metric ones are priced higher, because they don't sell many to the average householder.

Tire pressures are still in psi, and show no signs of ever changing. The local garage has a new electronic gizmo that you set the pressure on. It's in psi all the time. I believe this is due to the large difference in the numbers. Pascals are such a small unit, you need too many kPa's in your tire, just don't seem right for some reason???

I regularly mix metric and imperial measurements in spoken conversation, sometimes even in the the same sentence. Drives my kids nuts, they only get taught metric at school.

I notice they still give height measurements for bank robbers in both metric and imperial on the news, because more than half the population can't relate to the metric height, me included I must admit.

Temperature measurement in celcius seems to have been accepted, I guess the zero at water freezing and 100 at water boiling gave the cooks something to visualise, made the old 32 212 measure look a bit silly.

Just this morning on the weather report, I was surprised to hear the (sea) swell measured in feet only, no metric. I knew what she meant, but my kids can't visualise what a foot is, apart from the one on the end of their leg.

Designing a new work shed, had to review my blocks survey plans, they're all in chains and perches, ackk! First time I have wished to see feet and inches for a long while.

I did electrical engineering, my dad gave me his old ee text books for a reference. How he ever made sense of it is beyond me. Anyone who has actively worked in both systems will prefer the coordinated nature of SI units. In fact, if they are initially trained in SI units, it's very difficult to 'think' in the old units. I believe it's easier to change from imperial to SI, than to go the other way.

I believe it was worth the change, and I'm happy to put up with all the issues that it brings, because I know in one or two generations it will settle down to a much more coherent system. The problem I see in the US is that because there has not been an official change, the transition period will be much longer, and more painfull and costly, if the next generation is still getting their fundamental awareness in imperial units.

The official change started here around thirty years ago, I reckon it's got another thirty to settle properly. Probably more like one hundred years in the US, at the present rate, and being caught between the two systems for any longer than necessary is a worry.

regards,

John

Reply to
john johnson
Loading thread data ...

formatting link
Too bad. Nothing about Dick Moore. He was the driving force behind it. Over that span of years (1960 - 1983?), the US standard was in a child's-coffin-sized oak box that Dick built, which contained the apparatus. He gave it to the US government.

Ed Huntress

Reply to
Ed Huntress

One good argument that we should not switch over to the metric system is that the whole system was devised by the French. They have made a c*ck up of most things and this is no exception.

Reply to
Roger Shoaf

Nobody *has* to learn anything new. Nobody, least of all the government, is requiring anything of the sort. No disadvantages of any sort are being forced on *anyone* anywhere. This is why the issue, as I've already stated, is entirely completely 100% certainly pointless and moot. A dead parrot. There is no need to consider any forced disadvantages because there are none. None. They don't exist. If they did exist, they would involve some other concept.

Nobody is holding a combination hangun/metric micrometer to anyone's head, anywhere in the country. If they were, gunner would have mentioned it by now.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

I'm probably one of the many (but dwindling) number of people who were educated in imperial measurements but have since switched to metric.

Fortunately for me, this means I can work with either system, although for engineering purposes I much prefer to use metric -- especially now that digital calipers are often cheaper than vernier ones and I dislike having to perform mental gymnastics to calculate the decimal equivalent of measurements such as 5/64ths of an inch :-)

However, having said that -- I still ask for 1 inch RHS, four-bytwos (that's two-by-fours for you US-types), and 8'x4' sheets of stainless (rather than 2400x1200mm ones).

All my tooling (milling cutters, drill bits, etc) are metric but I have a full set of metric and imperial taps and dies.

-- you can contact me via

formatting link

Reply to
Bruce Simpson

1.37 sg
Reply to
Mark

Industries use Si when it is part of their industry. I have used Si and was a pre Si user as well. Physics is in Si - three versions of metric. Si simply states the basic unit and only in 1 standard mKS meter-kilogram-second not cgs - centimeter-gram-second.

We normally deal in three or four dimensions also. X,Y,Z,Time. I have (as others here) dealt with r-theta-time and other strange coordinates.

Many items are metric and simply state the 'inch/...' size.

Buy a quart of Coke today - you can't. Buy a fifth of whiskey - you can't.

Martin

Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

I agree that metric is a much more coherent and logical system, and therefore better. However- and I am not american, nor did I learn imperial first- there are things for which I find the imperial system easier to use. One such thing is handloading ammunition, where powder charges are measured in grains. It's much easier to remember a figure in whole grains than umpteen decimal figures in grams, for some reason.

Also, backwards compatibility is important. Even in metric countries there are lots of old stuff, or new stuff made to old standards, that will need servicing for centuries to come. How can one maintain these things if imperial tools and parts are not available? It might not be the best deal for you guys, but for us here in europe it is very nice that the US still makes tools and parts to obsolete standards so that we can keep our antiques in repair ;-)

BTW I have an old british-made lathe that is absolutely horrible to use, because it is a "metric" lathe made with imperial threads and dimensions almost everywhere but the leadscrews. It cannot easily cut imperial threads to replace worn-out parts, unless I leave the feed engaged and hand-crank the bloody thing back and forth. So far I've spent more time replacing worn bits on the lathe than making anything else, because noone makes metrimperial frankenparts that will fit any more. The toolpost is attached to the compound with a bizarre bolt that is threaded 11mm X 20tpi on one end and M6 on the other- WTF were the makers thinking?

So, obviusly, I agree that mixing systems is a very bad thing indeed. But that doesn't mean we should throw a perfectly functional system of measurement out the window.

-- Aamund Breivik

Reply to
Åmund Breivik

I remember touring in the middle 60's and buying Imperial quarts of oil and Imperial gallons. Those really did a fit in the brain - Imperial quart is so much larger that one waits to long to add oil or over oils or gives the partial can back to the dealer.

Such as it was from The Great Lakes to Vancouver by way of the inner mountain road that leads north from Calgary.

Fun trip in the Imperial days.

Martin

Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

Beg pardon - there are plenty - plenty of Metric first - never heard of growing up at home ? - Plenty of those that came here and had children were into metric and their kids knew metric first. That is called Ellis Island etc...

Martin

Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

The Mars Lander is up there in Metric. Done by Engineers and Scientists that learned Imperial at home and school, learned and studied Metric under degree programs.

We don't measure I.C.'s in yards ! A Micron is a Micrometer.

Check out ISBN 0780310500 A nice Metric Unit and Conversion Charts - nice tables..... paper back - by the IEEE press.

Martin IEEE

Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

......... na..thats way too easy.....

Gunner

"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"

Reply to
Gunner

formatting link
This is NIST's page of Constants, Units, and Uncertainty. poke around and you will find a lot of good information. NIST is our standards group.

Martin

Abrasha wrote:

formatting link

Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

47.
Reply to
Artemia Salina

To the tune of "several hundred" HP on a 2000 HP engine? Considering that the Rolls Royce folks probably didn't build engines that rattled when you shook them?

The Merlins grew more and more powerful, rapidly, throughout the war. I'm sure that includes the American production line.

-tih

Reply to
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo

ROFLMAO!!! How long did it take you to find it?

Gunner

"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"

Reply to
Gunner

When an auto company that we supplied with stamped parts went metric in the 70's, it took us by surprise. No communication. During the couple of months it took to change press feeder encoders, different dro's, etc, it was a real mess. I still have .03937 imbedded in my memory.

Jim Kovar Vulcan, Mi

Reply to
Jim Kovar

He was correct. I still have unpleasant thoughts of cranking the ol' "snortin norton" around on a twisty road one night and the lights went out.

Jim Kovar Vulcan, Mi

Reply to
Jim Kovar

You do if you want to fit in in the modern world.

Reply to
PhysicsGenius

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.