Michelle pimping the airwaves

An essential point is being missed here, which is that contributing directly to the welfare of people in need, as Iggy did, has little or no connection to supporting ministries. In many, perhaps most, US churches the contributions go first to supporting the church or the ministry. Some, particularly conservative (mainline) Protestant churches and Catholic churches, have established charities and they budget a percentage to them regardless of actual contributions made to the church. Many others do not.

Because most churches are tax-exempt in the US, contributions to the church or ministry also is tax-exempt. So contributions to registered churches, and contributions to registered charities, are handled the same from a tax standpoint. But the churches don't have to make any contributions on their part to charity to maintain their tax status. They can keep it all for running their own organizations. Tax-exempt charities cannot.

You can't enter someone else's head and determine their motivations for contributing to one versus the other, but their functions clearly are distinct. Whether one considers a contribution to a church to be equivalent to charity for people who are suffering the effects of a natural disaster is up to their own conscience; in some cases, it's a matter of declared church policies.

There is a big discussion of this in Larry Osbourn's last book.

I hear THAT!!!

Ten Dumb Things Smart Christians Believe by Larry W. Osborne (Paperback - April 14, 2009)

Gummer refers to his 56X126' lot as "acreage", warns that it's mined (against nosey bill collectors presumably), and claims to have a 1000' range in his backyard. Obviously lying comes as easily to him as breathing, and I don't expect the first to stop until the second does. Maybe not even then, since he's exactly the kind of guy who might leave instructions to inscribe a whopper on his tombstone. So I wouldn't waste a second weighing the validity of his opinion on guns or anything else for that matter. I remember him claiming to be an active hunter, yet curiously unaware of the very common knowledge of declining mule deer populations in the west. By then I'd figured out that his tales of being a cowboy, cop, indian, and biker etc. (every one of the village people ) were most likely all wild exaggerations based on little more than a whiff of experience and lots of ass time reading. Now he has to one-up himself with ever more ridiculous stuff like the 2' centipede and the well-stocked electronics shop. I've asked several times for readers to nominate a bigger BS artist, with no takers so far. And little wonder. There can't be many who've boasted of nearly unlimited skill, work ethic, and brokitis, all in the same post!

Wayne

Curiously, on this side of the pond, Tax exemption for charities works so that the charity recovers the tax, not the donor. The donor normally has to tick a box if using a form or website to state that they are a tax payer and want the charity to be able to reclaim the tax.

Mark Rand RTFM

Without getting into the details of our vastly different tax structures, all I can offer about ours is that it doesn't tax church organizations -- although it does tax their paid employees -- and that it allows an income tax deduction to individuals who make charitable contributions.

This wasn't intended to be an issue, only to point out that our tax system handles church contributions and charity contributions in a similar way. The point was intended to balance the point that there can be a big difference in how the money is spent. To be a legit charity, some percentage (I forget how much) actually has to go toward charitable causes, the definition of which can be someone else's bone, if they want something to chew on.

You practically stole a point that I was going to make, though I would not have stated it as well.

A charitable society, like Red Cross, exists for the purposes of providing material help to people in need.

A church exists as a mutual society of members of the church, and contributions to churches go towards paying the pastors and maintaining this social organization.

In other words, Red Cross passes the money through, and the church consumes money.

While donations to both churches and charitable societies are tax deductible, they do not perform the same social function.

So, saying that Mr. Conservative is better than Mr. Liberal, because Mr. Conservative contributed $30 towards his church, and Mr. Liberal contributed only $23 towards Red Cross, is disingenious. These contributions are of different nature.

In this example, Mr Liberal does not enjoy the benefit of paying for a building to enjoy meeting like minded people on Sundays.

The above is not really saying that contributing to Red Cross is "better" than to a church, only that they serve the a different function.

I know for a fact that they gave a similar amount to another charity just a short while earlier. Look, you may disagree with their politics, but they are decent, upstanding people.

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:26:23 -0800, the infamous "Steve B" scrawled the following:

Thanks, Steve. It sounds just like politics, doesn't it?

-- Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is Forgiven. Gee, ain't religion GREAT?

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:40:11 +0000, the infamous Mark Rand scrawled the following:

From your mouth to God's ear, Mark. The Brit PTBs will now add an additional 10% tax to everything in your own personal life--with your _blessing_.

(you forgot to say "only". ;)

-- It is in his pleasure that a man really lives; it is from his leisure that he constructs the true fabric of self. -- Agnes Repplier

I wouldn't say that lying people who hang out with terrorists are decent, upstanding people.

Steve

Slightly different tax structure, but yes, very similar.

Steve

Back when Elizabeth Dole was CEO/director/whatever of the Red Cross, she drew a salary of $400,000. (I don't know what the current "head" salary is.) How many pastors/bishops/whatevers get that? I don't see how you can make any credible point that the "existence" of the society is any less a purpose for the RC than say for the Salvation Army... WHICH btw was on scene at hurricane Andrew LONG BEFORE the Red Cross, and was GIVING aid to those in need. Meanwhile, the Red Cross was SELLING the coffee it was dispensing.

I see it the opposite way. How many Red Cross directors, vice presidents, etc. are drawing full time salaries greater than what you're making? Should employees of a "charitable organization" be making as much as the POTUS?

If you donate $50 to the Red Cross and $50 to Salvation Army's Haiti fund, I'd be willing to bet the Salvation Army passes more of that money through to Haiti than the Red Cross does.

I don't believe in those labels. They are in constant flux, and used only as devisive devices.

The actual point is, how much of your $50 actually ends up where YOU intend?

They exist to collect donations.

And no other group has to pay for their overhead? So much for your math skills.

So, the Red Cross doesn't pay utility bills, taxes, wages or anything else? What a moron.

Also, the Red Cross is always begging for money. Does every church in Chicago call you several times each year and pressure you for money? Even if you tell them you can't pay your own bills? They had the nerve to insist i could give them at least $25 a month when I had zero income.

Does the Red Cross have local offices all over town where they help people pay their bills, run food banks, give away clothes or help stranded motorists with gasoline and hotel scripts to get them back on the road? Arrange medicine for those who can't afford it? The Red Cross only shows up when the TV news cameras are rolling while local churches help their neighbors every day, till their money runs out each month. I know of some that almost lost their church buildings because they extended too much help, after Katrina.

You're right. Red Cross takes a bigger chunk of the money as overhead. Just like Children's Fund and other so called Charities that pay their director millions of dollars a year.

yawn. Red Cross owns and leases buildings all over the world. How many local Red Cross offices run soup kitchens, or training to help people get a job?

Red Cross is a business. Nothing more.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:14:06 -0800, the infamous "Steve B" scrawled the following:

You forgot the bigotry angle, the raised by corrupt Chicago gangsters/politicians angle, and a few more.

-- It is in his pleasure that a man really lives; it is from his leisure that he constructs the true fabric of self. -- Agnes Repplier

No, I haven't.

Steve

Why should I have gotten a receipt? What good would it do me?

When I file my taxes on the $18k total I made last year...or the unknown amount I make this year..probably close to the same...$100 wont do shit.

Im a bit disappointed in you however. Seems you kicked in what...$25 wasnt it? And I know you made a hell of a lot more than $18k last year.

You do realize dont you..that its the lower class and low middle class that give the most in donations in total, dont you?

Why? Because we of all people know how far $100 can be stretched if one is careful.

Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do something damned nasty to all three of them.

It could prove that you made the donation.

I thought that you mentioned that you would not file

The amount is $50. But I can prove that I donated $50.

Whereas, in your case, we have to believe, knowing that that you do not have any money, that you stopped by some collection point and contributed $100 and did not get any receipt. I am not saying that you did not do it. I am saying that I cannot believe this, given all I know.

I tremendously respect your metalworking opinions, but I have a bullshit alarm, and sometimes it flashes a signal that I should not simply believe something just because someone says so.

Prove it to whom? Those that know me well know I dont lie. Those that dont..shrug its not my problem.

Thats up in the air at the moment, though its not germane to the subject.

Good lad. Couldnt do any better though eh? Having a rough year too?

And I should care if you believe or not, why, exactly? I made the donation to help those in great and immediate need, not to polish my apple.

Good for you. Keep it well honed and properly oiled and it will be of great service in the years to come.

Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do something damned nasty to all three of them.