new motherboard

On 6/19/2014 8:09 AM, Karl Townsend wrote: ...

Download CPU-z

Remember the first D in DDR stands for Double. The DRAM frequency is shown, but that is only half your memory's speed. i.e., 1600 MHz DDR3 will show as 800 MHz DRAM frequency

I deal mostly with high voltage circuitry/devices, but I did see this in ya hoo answers, recently. It seems pretty urgent. I think you should read it .

Reusing a "CPU...You won't find a current motherboard to accept it"

"OK first, NEVER reuse a power supply. I don't care if the power supply is

6 months old. Good power supplies last about 5 years maximum, usually. AVER AGE quality power supplies will go 2-3 years if you are lucky. And when the y die (not if, WHEN) they have a nasty habit of destroying other components . Always use a good quality BRAND NEW power supply for a new build...or even a major upgrade!

If your computer is more than a year old, you might be able to reuse some disk drives. And yes, if your case is good quality, you can probably reuse that.

For the most part though, if your system is more than a few years old it's better to start over from scratch.

Case...cheap enough, do you really want to keep the old one? Power supply...NEVER use the old one Motherboard...won't be compatible with well, anything you want to use. CPU...You won't find a current motherboard to accept it RAM...You won't find a current motherboard to accept it. If you do find th at motherboard, you do not want to buy it. Video card...Might not fit current motherboards, but is terribly outdated anyway. Get rid of it. Hard Drive...will slow down your new hardware, UNLESS the hard drive is mu ch newer than the rest of your current system Optical drive...yeah, you could reuse it. but 5-7 years old? That's got to be close to the end of its useful life anyway (replace it for like 17 buck s)

Basically, start over from nothing.

Another reason you want to replace EVERY component is quite simple...

Whenever you are building a new system, you want to have a COMPLETE, worki ng system handy...in case you need to hop on the web to research something during the build process. "

--

(in other words, everything is now designed to become obsolete too quickly for reuse)

These are good and free if the computer still works.

You could also try the Crucial Advisor

I have only refurbished business Dells that don't upgrade easily so I can't help with mobos or moving the OS.

-jsw

IMO much of what you just said is bullshit . MB's are available all over the place for AM3 /quad core processors , and DDR3 RAM is still currewnt technology . I do agree with replacing the optical drive and power supply though . Keep the old ones as backups ... And Karl , you should be able to use the same Win7 license in a new build . Might have to call M$ to activate it , I've had to do that when re-using XP licenses . -- Snag

I've had fair luck buying complete PC refurbs from Tiger Direct. In fact I am running 5 of them right now. 4 of them are dedicated CNC controllers. Cheap, and up and running fast.

I buy used Dell Optiplex and such machines from their industrial-grade line (not the consumer-grade stuff). Looking at them, I sure can't tell the difference, except maybe the sheet metal work is a bit lighter on the consumer models. But, their commercial desktops are just amazingly robust. I recently replaced my main desktop, an Optiplex GX400 which

** I ** had been using for TWELVE years after buying it used. My daughter is now using it.

If you swap the disk drive into the new machine, M$ should only require a re-registration of the new hardware (if that). You can also clone the old hard drive to a brand-new SSD.

I would recommend NOT trying to save the CPU. CPUs and motherboards have a constant progression of models, and unless you are a real PRO with them, you could easily end up with incompatible parts.

Memory is another matter. There are different number of contacts on the memory connectors (used to be 240- and 204-contacts) as well as different bus speeds, and DDR, DDR2, DDR3, etc. Some MBs accept several types and speeds, others are more picky.

I use Linux, and it is outstandingly reliable and immune to various crap people try to put on your computer without your knowledge.

Jon

You've been less than forthcoming about why you want a new motherboard. The one you have is way better than you need for what you say you want to do. Is it broke? How broke?

I get all my computers at garage sales. Most of the "broken" ones were fixed by blowing the dust out of the cpu heat sink. The rest required changing a couple of caps.

If you like to tinker or are cheap, it's worth at least making an attempt to fix it.

If you're made of money or just want a new machine, go buy a machine.

Everything in the middle is a crap shoot. Mixing stuff is fraught with issues. I bought a CPU to upgrade a motherboard. Turns out that the cpu is fully compatible with the hardware, but the bios cpu table was never upgraded to recognize it...and never will be. Unless the motherboard specifically calls out compatibility with the EXACT processor you have, you're in for a bumpy ride.

I use Linux and I use Windows and I never have a software issue with either. Well, except for Adobe software, but that's crap no matter what platform you run it on.

If you are tired of paying Microsoft every time you change the color adjustment on your monitor -- let alone make some more substantial change -- why not go to some version of linux. Nothing you have listed above seems to exclusively call for Windows -- unlike certain CAD programs or the like which may only be *made* for Windows.

How old is your previous system? You don't say, other than "several years".

Has Microsoft stopped checking the whole configuration of the system (how many disks of what size, how much memory, what graphics card, and all) and just checks the serial number in the CPU now? If they still do all the checks I mentioned, keeping the same CPU (*if* you can find a modern motherboard which will accept it) may not be enough to keep them off your back. Using linux (or some other unix which works on PC hardware) will not only get them off your back, but also make them quite unhappy in a way that they can't legally do anything about it. :-)

I really don't know. It depends on what they check these days.

I've acquired several computers pre-loaded with XP and more recently Windows 7, and the first thing that I did was to strip out that disk and install either OpenBSD, Solaris 10, or Ubuntu linux, depending on what I wanted to do with the system.

Good Luck, DoN.

A Windows C: drive boots in a different machine but loudly and frequently warns you that it failed validation, and becomes harder and harder to use. It lasted long enough to prove that the stubborn problem I was chasing was a driver instead of the hardware.

I've triggered the validation warning by uninstalling (not removing) the hardware of a Broadcom Trusted Platform Module security add-on without any other changes. This is the type of problem that made me maintain a master C: drive for each computer, which I clone to other "sandbox" drives to use. Cloning or restoring a whole partition's backup is a bulletproof System Restore but it won't transfer a validated OS installation to other hardware without personal absolution of your sin from M$. Find something soft to kneel on before calling them.

The master drive can be the small original that came with the used computer if it passes SMART checks etc. The one for this laptop is a large drive in a bootable CD-bay caddy that also holds my archived eBooks and downloads in a second partition.

See "Data collected". AFAIK it allows individual, infrequent changes to the objects it surveys. Frequently swapping hard drives, all descended from the master, has never bothered mine.

Linux certainly has its place. But There are serious issues with compatibility with your decades of previous work. Sure, you can get MUCH of the functionality you need, as long as you're willing to learn new apps, new procedures, new everything, and convert your data and just say goodbye to stuff that isn't compatible. The devil is in the details of that small percentage of stuff isn't supported in linux, but you feel you MUST be able to do.

Then there's the issue that every version of every linux distro seems to feel the need to change everything at each release. Just as you're starting to get a handle on it, it changes. Much the same function with different methods. CHAOS!!

FWIW, MS has never been "on my back." Virtually every computer comes with it and it just works. But I do ride the linux mechanical bull when I need amusement. Damn thing keeps throwing me off.

I'm itching to assist anyone wishing to convert to linux. Just send me your old windows install DVD. COA and the license keys. I'll put 'em to use and prevent you backsliding into windows. Just doin' my part to speed the world's conversion to linux on the desktop.

Email me them windows license keys you'll not be using.

And, of course, all this linux talk has zero to do with what motherboard he chooses. OR metalworking!

You overly exaggerate the problems of Windows. It's as big as it is for good reasons.

Mitre dumped MS after the Cuckoo's Egg incident and tried to live on Macs and Sparcs but whenever we really needed to get something done in the lab we had to get permission for a Windows PC. I've watched newly graduated engineers who were pious linux accolytes slowly and grudgingly switch to XP, with Cygwin as a last futile gesture of defiance.

It was no fun at all when they hit me with linux and discovered I knew it plus commands they didn't, as I had once been asked to write DOS batch files that emulate the common unix commands and switches.

-jsw

[ ... ]

Note my text above, which I'll move down here again:

====================================================================== Nothing you have listed above seems to exclusively call for Windows -- unlike certain CAD programs or the like which may only be *made* for Windows. ======================================================================

Nothing that he had listed above as his intended use *required* Windows, or compatibility with Windows programs. He mentioned nothing about CAD programs or others which really needed Windows to maintain compatibility. All he *said* that he wanted was file storage, and internet surfing. If he is already using Thunderbird, that would not even require any re-learning. It works pretty much the same on any OS for which it is available.

Now -- if the "file storage" listed above includes files created by applications which are not available for linux -- *that* could be a problem. But for all we know, they are plain text files -- or even files created by MicroSoft Word (use LibreOffice to access those).

And -- if he had to, he *could* run the current Windows on a virtual machine inside the linux. Yes, a little slower -- but it could be recreated (very quickly) from a backup whenever he needs to run it and then waved goodby to when he shuts off the machine -- thus blowing away any virus infections from incautious browsing. Just make sure to back up any newly-crated files that he really *needs* to preserve.

So -- don't upgrade if you are happy with what works already. I've got systems running Sun's Solaris from back in version 2.6, and some machines which I would have to use SunOs 4.1.1 or earlier to run.

Have you tried moving your Windows disks to a new machine without getting Microsoft's blessing first? They are the only ones I know of who make that difficult on purpose.

For me -- no worry about backsliding into Windows. I've been using unix (various flavors) since before Windows came out. I've used it only when I needed a "popular" OS for programs which don't support less popular ones. Now, for that I have a token Mac Mini. Things like income tax software and GPS update programs are what cause me to use a "popular" OS.

Back when I did that with Windows, I typically did not boot that machine more often than perhaps three times in a year.

Well ... programming in raw machine language is (or was) called "Programming on the bare metal". But almost nobody does that any more. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

Your AMD FX-4100 CPU was released in 2011 and was at that time the low end of the AMD-41xx series. On the other hand with the exception of the L2 cache memory (4 mbyte) its performance figures are very similar to my Intel core5-4670 (L2 cache - 6 mb) so performance for web surfing and data handling will likely be satisfactory.

You say that your new MB will require DDR3. Your current memory chips should have a number on them for identification.

Amazon sells 8 gig, DDR3 1333 mhz for about $70 a set and 4 gig sets of 4 gig 1600 mhz for about $75/set. You will need two chips (1 set) as the board likely has dual channel memory.

The page you reference shows several MB's, the first of which seems to be a dial CPU board, but the others all have 4 SATA connections.

That's very true as I addressed, but irrelevant since I buy a newer, faster used machine for the later OS it comes with.

To me "If you want to use linux" sounds like "if you want to be a vegan" -- please validate my contrarian choice.

I used whatever the company required without religious objection; VAX, Apollo, Mac, Solaris, Windows, even Novell Netware and HP1000 assembly.

-jsw

What are you trying to accomplish by replacing the motherboard? Will re-using the existing processor accomplish that? Does your old computer use UEFI bios? If not, forget it. You will need to totally reinstall EVERYTHING on the hard drive to use the ASUS boards.If it does, you will have to do it for the others. Personally I won't touch an AMD processor unless I get it for free. I have an AMD laptop - I got it for free and spent $6 to fix it.

We're in high agreement about the state of linux. Difference is that you ignore the significant effects of those minor lacks of support.

99.9% of the time I spend at my keyboard is using firefox or thunderbird. For those, it really doesn't matter which OS I use. So the 99.9% statistic sounds like a no-brainer... but Statistics rarely tell the whole story.

My VOIP system is not supported by linux. When I run linux, I don't have a phone. Kinda defeats the purpose of having a phone.

I have four TV cards that I use to time-shift TV. None are supported by linux. When I run linux, my TV doesn't record. Kinda defeats the purpose of having a TV recorder.

If I edit a text file in one system and then another, it inevitably merges all the lines into one long line. Not cool.

I don't write many programs, but they're all in Visual Basic. Or PIC basic pro. Or Palm basic. NEVER in C. I've amassed a number of utility programs that I'm not willing to port.

Rebooting doesn't sound like much until you realize that you loose coherency among all your bookmarks and history and passwords and all the other stuff automagically maintained by the OS and apps. No problem, build yet another linux machine to be a mail server...yeah, right!!

If you're gonna run windows in a VM, you still have all the activation issues plus another layer of confusion/configuration for the apps.

Remember that most of the really good stuff developed for/by linux has been ported to windows.

Another way of looking at the situation is exemplified in Firefox. The user interfaces are different enough to be annoying. Look at the configuration menu. Different places. OK, stand on your soapbox and scream that linux does it the "right" way. That's not the issue. The issue is that the minority linux version defies convention and thumbs it's collective nose at the incumbent majority. It may be right, but it's a lousy strategy if you want more linux desktop users.

The only valid reason that typically shows up is the malware issue. And it's WAY overblown for those of us with the restraint to watch where we are and avoid clicking on everything shiny...and use firewall/malware apps. I don't think I've EVER had a malware problem. I've had a few alerts from the virus scanner, but most of them were false positives. The rest were where expected malware and ran on a separate machine. If linux ever achieves major use on the desktop, you can be sure that the malware will catch up. Security of the OS is a minor issue. The careless clicky finger is the bigger issue. And that's OS independent.

So, if you gotta run windows for anything, you might as well run it for everything. You can always run linux in a VM if you ever find anything that must have it.

I boot a live linux CD for online banking. Otherwise, haven't fired off my linux VM except when I was really, really bored and needed more frustration in my diet. Ditto for the other three linux machines sitting gathering dust. The effort required to walk across the room to push the power button far exceeds any benefit to be gained.

Booting a live linux thumb drive is an excellent way to test used computers. Most people don't do that a lot. Interesting that I messed with creating that live thumb drive for a long time using linux. Finally ran the windows utility to do it. click, click, done! I can multi boot two linuxes, one windows and save a bunch of files using one thumb drive and a windows utility to make it. And I had to learn nothing, zero, nada about command line utilities or partitions or boot flags or boot managers or anything else operatingsystemy.

Linux on the desktop is so close that we can taste it. But with the current development infrastructure that lets anybody and their dog modify the code and add a new distro to the chaos, I don't expect it will ever stabilize and defragment to the degree necessary to displace MS. There's just too much linux ego involved and no leadership. There are also problems with the business model of "FREE as in beer". Hard to make a business out of that...unless it's a business helping other businesses navigate the chaos...like redhat. And, for most of us, windows is "free" too. It comes with the hardware.

But it's only been a few decades...see where it goes. Maybe MS will commit suicide.

My first home desktop computer was a Unix system in '89. I've run linux since the days it would fit on a floppy. I've got more linux distro CD's than I can count...most have been installed and run over the years. In all this time, nothing compelling...

Are we having fun yet?

Depends what kind of licence you have. If you got stuck with an OEM licence attached to a pre-install with only a restore disk (not a full microsoft install) not only can you not legally use it on a different computer (and a different motherboard makes it a different computer in Microsoft's eyes) but in many cases it physically will not install on the new computer. If it is a pre uefi system you might be able to install the running hard drive, but you may not be able to re-install.

======================= Several suggestions:

(1) Install Linux [I like Ubuntu] and Windows 7 for a dual boot system. Linux and a ton of free software, at least as good as the commercial equivalents are available for downloading. Linux is continually upgraded, and is what most of the IT department and ISP servers run.

(2) Selecting the correct motherboard will allow easy upgrade as your requirements increase. I like Tiger Direct. Only complaint I have is that they like to hold on to the rebate money for as long as possible. Best deals are the bare bones kits

I have had good luck with WD drives

(3) Download and run

to see what you have in your current system.

(4) you should have a USB 2 or 3 port with the new motherboard. Install one of the new USB micro flash drives at least equal to your installed RAM and configure as the ReadyBoost drive. click on computer the flash drive th properties. Cuts down on hard drive i/o when you need to swap out the physical memory. You can also use an SD chip if you have a slot. Class 4 is all you need. If you have USB3 be sure to get a USB3 flash drive. These are slightly more expensive but much faster.

you can use extra space above the ReadyBoost swap file as an other hard drive.

Let the group know how you make out.