OT: 2700-yard sniper record

It takes just a bit of time, and having a couple of good long distance shooters that you can actually trust about giving advice doesn't hurt.

The biggest hurdle to get over from what I have seen is that while you may be a great shot at 100-200 yards, once you open that up to 1000+ things that you cannot control during the bullets flight become a BIG factor. Especially if your shooting the small calibers like the 5.56,

If you want to find out if a gun you already have can handle 1000 yard without a lot of work take it to a range and see where your rounds are at 300-400 yards. If you can keep a 5 shot group in an 1"-1.5" area at those ranges the gun is capable of 1000 yards without a lot of work.

I started with a Rem. 700 in 30-06. with a heavy barrel. Did OK the first few times out and decided to make a true long distance gun out of it. Currently it still has the 700 action! Had it trued up, a 30-06 Krieger

I also have a very similar rifle in .308

Actually...yes..and no.

Shrug

Really? Very interesting! Got cites? Id love to read them.

Very nice!

Best I can do "every day" is about a 12" group at 1000, with some of my odds and ends.

It has how much shim under the back of the scope mount?

Gunner

With the current record looking to be 3.06" (hasn't been validated yet) from a very special "gun" I just shoot to keep in practice now.

I have a set of micrometer adjustable bases on both. The front ring is pivot mounted on a custom base so I can adjust as needed. I set up, fire a check round and dial in what I need for the round I'm using.

Perhaps it would have been more correct to say something like, "If a sniper expert system can be realized, it can cope with such variables almost by definition."

A feedback control system operates by sensing deviation of an output variable from a setpoint and then applying corrective action to reduce this error. In the instant example: fire a shot, see where it goes, adjust aimpoint accordingly and fire for effect. This is OK for benchrest shooting but not acceptable for snipers.

An expert system emulates what expert operators do to achieve successful results, which for snipers is OSOK.

Part of the science and art of creating an expert system is to determine what variables an expert processes and how. That can be quite a challenge because often, perhaps usually, the experts themselves aren't sure what they sense and how their brains use that information to guide their actions. They also may not know why their actions or adjustments succeed.

The actual system may then be rule-based, algorithmic, use plant simulation or emulation even if only statistical in nature, and/or a variety of other control strategies. Sensors may be actual or inferential, may be neural and/or adaptive.

The puzzle palace where I worked did research in AI and expert systems. In addition to various kinds of engineers, they employed people with advanced degrees in cognitive psychology. They were able to automate some processes once thought impossible (to automate) because they were and still are poorly understood.

Part of the impetus for this research was to capture the expertise of experts who were nearing retirement age. The concern was that once these guys were gone the enterprise would suddenly be unable to maintain production rate and quality the experts could deliver. That can mean big bux.

Gunner Asch wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

The "story" of the .32 WS has been published in Guns and Ammo as well (IIRC) The American Rifleman. I first ran across these articles in the '60s.

The rifling of a .32 WS (as I stated earlier) is 1-in-16" to reduce both lead and powder fouling encountered when .30-30s were reloaded with BP and cast bullets.

When the M94 was first introduced with its new .30-30 round, only factory loads were available but, at the time, the majority of hunters/shooters "rolled their own".

Since smokeless powder was not available on the consumer market and jacketed bullets were scarce, hunters/shooters did what they'd always done and used BP with cast bullets. This resulted in fouled barrels very quickly, especially when the "tight" 1--in-10" twist shaved off the lead...

News of the "fouling problem" spread quickly and M94 sales fell off in a hurry.

While Winchester's (probable) initial response was to say "Quit reloading and buy new Winchester ammunition!", some brainy character suggested a temporary solution: produce a rifle/cartridge combination that *could* be reloaded with BP and cast bullets.

Once the new combo hit the market, sales improved.

Mass production of smokeless powder in volumes sufficient to satisfy the consumer market coupled with a decline in the number of reloaders

Eventually, though, Winchester stopped producing the M94 in .32 WS.

AFAIK, only Remington produces .32 WS cartridges today.

.30-30 brass can be used to reload the .32 WS and can even be fire-formed in a .32 WS rifle. (Firing a .30-30 round from a .32 WS produces rather unpredictable - but inaccurate - results...)

BTDT - and still use my M94 .32 WS as a "brush gun".

As a side note..I have several .32 WS in my collection and have loaded a number of cases with black powder and a variety of cast bullets to variable effect.

Gunner

Gunner Asch wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

What load gave the best results?

What distance did you test at?

Well I do know a couple, but they're in complete other states.

Well,that settles that. I am, at present, at best, a fair shooter at 100 yards. Sigh, maybe I'll take up needlepoint..

pyotr

- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

As far as I can remember, 170 gr flat nose cast with 3031 was the best for cast. Ill have to dig out that book and check

Gunner

Get some time, come on out to California and Ill teach you a few things. Combat handgun, combat rifle, combat shotgun.

Free.

Gunner

I think that could be a lot of fun. I'd bring or cover cost of ammo and buy a meal or two.

We may still make it west one of these days. Maybe we should just do it while we still can, if we still can. What is weather like there in November and December, after we've closed the cabin and days get short and dreary in Minnesota?

Gunner Asch on Mon, 10 May 2010 17:19:04 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

It is on my list. Not my bucket list, just the list.

A very good price. I'll buy lunch.

- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Don, etal,

If you haven't seen it yet look for the movie, "The Hurt Locker".

There's a long-range gunfight in there that you really want to see...

I'll put that in my queue at Netflix.

My clearances lapsed years ago so perhaps you have classified knowledge not available to me and most of us. I note that the U.S. Army and USMC continue to have sniper schools in which major parts of the training regimen and requirement for graduation are patience, discipline, stealth and camouflage. Sniper students must be completely invisible to pass muster. They also must be able to shoot quite well. Can you tell us more about weapons systems that can relatively easily be inserted surreptitiously?

November and December...humm...mid to low 70s, might get a splatter of rain..but since the average rainfall here is 4" a year...its just enough to mark the dust on the windshield.

Good shooting weather

Gunner

Ill put you up in the motor home in the back yard.

Gunner

Gunner Asch wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Beats the pants off of New England in May. We had the last match of the local spring offhand league in a day-long rain storm. This is 200 yards, offhand, and it was a miracle the targets didn't dissolve. As it was, they had several scoring problems when the pasters fell off old shots. My front sight is a clear plastic disk with a hole in the middle. It was covered in rain drops, so I had to scan the hole around to check my target number before every shot.

It took me several days to get all our gear dried out. I literally poured water out of the buffer tube on my wife's ar-15 "space gun".

The only saving grace was that I won the match with a 197 (a personal best, and under the worst conditions I've ever shot in).

Doug White