OT - Gunner Quote

On 23 Jan 2004 21:26:37 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net (Excitable Boy) wrote:


So the mainland Chinese ARE allowed to participate in free elections? How do you expect the Fulan Gong Party to do next year? The Christian Democrats? The Libertarians?
Go to the churches of their choice? No. Speak out against the government? Only once.
No political freedom there. They are developing a bit of economic freedom, so long as they don't try it on a political level. Very similar situation to Franco's Spain. But they can't get to a high enough level of economic freedom to sustain their growth rate without also developing political freedom, just like Spain and Portugal did. The world info economy requires individual and political freedom for its successful participants. The mainland Chinese can't get there without some extreme changes. You aren't going to like them. ;-)
One way or the other, the Chinese Communist Party is going to fail - either not enough economic growth to sustain them, or too much political freedom to keep their monopoly of political power. It'll be interesting to see which way it goes. I'm only sorry I probably won't live long enough to see it.
I do appreciate having lived to see the death of that other Evil Empire.

You obviously do not have a firm grasp on reality.
-- Robert Sturgeon, proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy and the evil gun culture.
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:17:38 +0100, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo

And why should anyone expect the Chinese ruling class, largely comprised of military leaders, give up a power which is absolute?

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On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 06:00:22 GMT, strabo

They won't - at least not voluntarily.
-- Robert Sturgeon, proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy and the evil gun culture.
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wrote:

I was mistaken ... you guys don't read Reader's Digest. You aren't that smart and the pages are too small for the big pictures you'd need.for coloring Do they make some kind of mechanism that takes care of breathing for you ? Because there's obviously not enough between your ears to even take care of that minimal function. There's just about nothing to say when faced with such appalling ignorance.
Let's put this into really really small words so that even you two might have a chance to get it : I LIVE HERE, you morons. You are out of your rabbit-ass fricking minds. Neither one of you has 1/100th of a clue as to what China is like. No, let's get accurate : 1/1000000th of a klew. Christ, you are stewpid.
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On 24 Jan 2004 03:08:07 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net (Excitable Boy) wrote:

Hmmm. I do Hamei. Have a clue. Been there. Altho it's been 14 - 15 years ago.
And have friends who've been there recently, past couple years. Friends who do speak Chinese well, as they were born in Hong Kong.
I haven't been following this debate you're having with Robert and others. Couldn't care less about these mutual flaming parties.
But I did bother to read a couple posts in this thread at random. Just to see if there was anything in the thread of interest to me. There isn't. Except your comments on China perked my curiosity.
I am not one who would bash China, or the Chinese. Far from it. Tho I have issues with their government. However, things you've said do not coincide with what I know from personal experience, with what's been told to me by folks who've been there in the recent past, nor with current news reports by a whole friggin variety of sources, not just US ones.
So, curiosity perked, I did a little checking.
One of the curious things I've noted just looking a random samplings of your posts is that the time stamping on most I looked at, in relation to times when it appeared that you responded relatively soon to another post ... seems to indicate you live somewhere in the continental US. Either that or you've invented a way to make an ISP's servers alter their time stamps just for you, personally.
At a guess, just mentally noting time stamps of several randomly picked posts, if asked ... it'd seem to me you were somewhere in or around California. Taking into account normal human living patterns. i.e. Times in the day you most folks would be at work ... not posting, evening times when folks do most of their posting. Late Friday nights/early Saturday morning postings. And so forth.
I notice things like time stamps almost automatically. Having spent a career in the Navy and having to, on many an occassion, be juggling different time zones in my head. It sortta becomes habit. Like, "Hmmm ... it's noon here, and I'm in Taiwan, what's a good local time for me to call my wife so I'm likely to catch her home, and still awake?"
Anyway, somewhere around California appeared right. And that did jive with the "pacbell" part of your email addy.
I was then curious, Hmmmm, PacBell does ISP in China? Not last I'd heard. So I checked.
http://www.internetnews.com/stats/article.php/3299861
Excerpted from above"
"China had 79.5 million Web surfers at the end of 2003, a report by the China Internet Network Information Center (CNNIC) out of Beijing stated Thursday. "
"While 79.5 million would be a significant number in most countries, it's a mere six percent of China's total population of 1.28 billion. In the U.S., Web surfers make up 57 percent of the total population of 290.34 million. "
"China has only three Internet service providers (ISPs) -- ChinaLink Networks, Netaway and VPM Internet Services, Inc. --"
Hmmm. That info is from official Chinese sources themselves. And it jives with other sources of info I'm familiar with. I'm far from wealthy, but do have a small amount of money invested in some stocks which cause me to keep track on who is setting up new lines, services, and so forth in the communications world. So someone getting "into" China is something I follow. Nice big market there. As I say, I'm far from wealthy, I wouldn't mind having a bit more money. A couple or a few thousand more might not mean much to the Tim May's of the world. But it's meaningful money to me.
So, how is it you live in China, but have PacBell as your ISP?
Just curious.
Also curious as to how you seem to communicate so freely back and forth and seem to roam the Net at will. Since China's government is pretty well known for blocking a lot of sites and whole ISPs, etc?
An example to read about that subject: http://www.wayan.net/exp/china/censor.htm
That's just one. Do a Google search using china+censorship+internet and it'll turn up a whole bunch more examples.
Bob
*** No flame intended, just curious.
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wrote:

Or he's posting from work. Lots of people do that. China (yeah, all of it, they only have one time zone) is exactly 12 hours different from here (NYC time) so it's easy for me to keep track.

Actually, his usenet posts are coming through cn.net in Beijing, China if you know how to check. Anyone can have their e-mail forwarded from anywhere to anywhere, n'est-ce pas? Why do you think his e-mail address is related to his ISP? Mine isn't.
<snip> >So, how is it you live in China, but have PacBell as your ISP?

Pretty much BS. I've used the net from at least a dozen different places in many different cities in China, and notice nothing blocked. Google and so on worked fine, including from the telephone company office. If they are blocking those Falun Da Fa weirdos, wouldnt' miss them one bit.
I'll leave the relative freedom discussion for another time when I have time and inclination to argue, too nice (but cold) a day today...
Best regards, Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
snipped-for-privacy@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:53:59 GMT, Spehro Pefhany

Hmmm. Okay ....

Not my point, Spehro.
I know more than a little about how the net works, trust me. I'd not be asking about a simple thing like email addys without a reason.

Hmmm. Okay.
Wasn't my question. Could we stick with my questions?
Spehro, I was trying to determine if Hamei was, in fact, in China. And, if he was, how he was managing to route his mail thru Pacbell, and pay them for it as I'd expect they'd like to be paid for it.
China, whether you friggin know it or not, DOES block certain internet traffic. Not only blocks items, but if one is in China and tries to put up one's own web site which says things the government does not approve of, one can end up in prison.
I think you live near New York, why don't you look up a fellow named Lin Hai. Now a computer scientist and consultant in New York. Originally from Shanghai. Why don't you just ask him about what happens to folks who displease the censors in China? He managed to come to the US after he did a couple years in a Chinese prison. His crime? He was helping to spread around an internet based newsletter calling for more freedom and democracy. He was advocating no violence, no forceful revolution, nada.
The Chinese government does far more than just block Falun Dafa.
The very reason I posted one site with evidence to that fact in my original response to Hamei. Could've posted a LOT more.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/03/tech/main531567.shtml http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2264508.stm
Just another couple of examples.
Myself, I needed no examples. For one, had the word from the horse's mouth so to speak. The friends I mentioned, who were born in Hong Kong. Have relatives over on the mainland they still keep track of. Much easier now than it used to be. To keep in touch. And every once in a while when they can afford it, nowadays they can take a trip to China and actually see the relatives. Not often. They say it's been 3 times in the past 10 years. My friends do have their own kids, 2 in college, so it's not as if they've got a lot of money to making the trip more often.
Anyway, my friends and my wife and I were talking. And subject came up about phone calls, regular mail, and the internet as a means of having more contact.
And my friends say they do that but ....
Well, let's put it this way. The relatives have stuff they absolutely refuse to say or talk about. In public. And they consider the phones, regular mail, and internet communications as "public". That is, being watched and monitored. They're absolutely convinced the government does at least some monitoring. Certainly, they can not monitor everything. There simply aren't enough people, money, and resources to monitor every internet connection, open every letter and read it, or listen in on every phone call. But the folks who live there in mainland China ... and I'm not talking about the priviledged classes, foreign businessmen or consultants, tourists, and the like ... I'm talking about the ordinary person ... are convinced that there is at least random monitoring. And that one can go to jail, maybe worse, if one is caught saying things the government does not approve of.
That's what my friends' relative say. But only in person, and only when no one not absolutely trusted is near enough to hear.
I've also heard this from others. And, FWIW, it's also reported routinely and regularly by members of the press ... from many countries not just the US, by human rights groups of various sorts, and so forth. Even the Chinese government themselves officially acknowledge they do internet monitoring and censorship. Tho they don't publically acknowledge the extent to which they do it.
"Regulations approved by the state council and released by the Ministry in Public Security in 1997 say it is illegal to use the Internet to make, produce, look up, copy or spread information that harms the prestige of state institutions, subverts state power, destroys the unity of China, or seeks to overthrow the socialist system. "
Professor Andrew J Nathan from Columbia University did a study on the issue. He tapped into China, using various means ... and the advice of some top hackers ... and then using a database of known "outside" sites, started to try to access them from "inside" China. And found that the "rumors" were indeed true. His database was of some 200,000 known active sites. A tiny fraction of all internet sites. But based on the numbers he found blocked, he worked out the math and estimates it'd take something like 30,000 "internet police" to be keeping track of, and blocking the percentage of sites he found them to be blocking.
BTW, this is no big secret. An internet search will show you articles mentioning the fact that Google, Yahoo, AOL, and others have known this for years. And routinely counter by changing certain web pages just enough to avoid the blocking for a while, at least. A money game, don'tcha know. They have advertisers who want the people of China to see some of their ads. So Google, Yahoo, etc do what they need to do to try to foil the censors.
And, of course, so do others. And the reality is, it's a losing battle on the part of the Chinese government. Simply too many sites, too many workarounds, and so forth. But they're still trying.
So, anyway. I was curious. If Hamei is who he says he is, and is where he says he is. And he's managing to link to the outside world freely, without the censors blocking him, and even use a US based ISP. Then I wanted to know. I see that as a hopeful sign. Maybe the Chinese government is loosening up ... or giving up ... on their internet censorship.
That's why I was quizzing him.
Now, as far as your statements about BS.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I've been to China. A couple times. Actually, 3.
First time doesn't count as they didn't know I was there. :-) It was a real short, fast trip, only a little ways into their territory. There were these fellows who'd ... ummm ... been visiting there, real sneaky like ... and they needed a ride home. Don't ask, I have no real clue why they were there. I know nothing. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.
The 3rd time I was in China, the last time, just a few days, 4. I was just an aid/assistant along for the ride on an official trip.
The middle time was in the early 80's. And I was there TAD for 6 months. Why? I was helping set up a special school. No secret spy stuff or weapons facility or anything like that. At the time we weren't even "officially" cooperating with the Chinese. But don't believe everything you read or see on TV. There are almost always things going on that's not in the news, nor even being publically spoken about by politicians.
In this case, it was simple. Despite "official" tension between the two governments at the time, ours and theirs, there were a lot of unofficial talks, dickering, handshaking, etc. Lots of disagreements, also. But one of the things the Chinese wanted at the time was some help with a problem. A particular problem. China had a lot of ships ... and they sucked. As concerns reliability, maintenance, and so forth.
Now, actually I don't have a clue as to who came up with the idea originally. I was WAYYY too far down on the totem pole to ever know such things. I was just a Navy man. But somebody came up with the idea. And I was one of the ones chosen to "make it happen". And what happened was we set up a training program for some of their people, the Chinese. To teach students how to properly operate and maintain steam engines, properly do repairs. How to set up a formal preventative maintenance system. Do scheduled rotation of ships for major repairs and rework. How to plan the jobs; manpower, materials, time estimates, etc.
Chuckle, who can figure out politicians, diplomats, and governments? I sure can't. Here we were at the time "officially" in a guarded and unfriendly status towards China. Offcially, they were just as cold and unfriendly towards us. Yet I found myself, along with copies of all the text books and manuals from the Navy's Engineering School, lesson plans, lesson topic guides, etc ... plus a bunch of other folks (I was just one player among several), headed to China to "teach the teachers".
ROFLMAO !!!
With orders we weren't to tell anyone what was going on, before or after the trip. It was one of those "it never happened" things.
Ahhh, Geez. When I first got my orders to start the planning and preps. It was a PIA. All those student text books, manuals and stuff? Had to be translated. And the only Chinese I knew was enough to order a beer, food, bed, and pussy. And a few other words best not said in polite company. Whoever thought of the brilliant plan hadn't thought of the problem of translating those books. When I mentioned the issue to the Navy Captain in charge, I got one of those "Make it happen" orders.
<Shrug> So I played "dialing for dollars". Making inquiries here and there. Spent days at it. Finally found the solution. Turns out the Christians in Action had a fellow who could speak, read, and write 7 dialects of the Chinese language better than the Chinese could. They (the Chinese) said so when some of their folks met him. Anyway, he had a whole office load of folks who knew at least the main dialect. I got my textbooks and manuals translated and reprinted.
It was over a year, between the time we were told "make it happen" and things actually got going. Things had to be translated and printed. Plus we had some reps from China in Great Lakes Illinois at the Navy Engineering School. Some to start learning. Others taking pictures and notes. Then going back home to set up the physical requirements of the school. To teach sailors how to operate and fix boilers, steam turbines, pumps, valves, regulators, pneumatic controls, etc ... yah actually need the equipment set up. I gathered they already had the main components in place, were now taking care of the auxiliary components. And setting up the separate labs for teaching pumps, copmpressor, valve, governor, etc repair.
Anyway, it was finally done and we went to China.
That's why I said off the bat to Hamei that I had nothing against the Chinese people themselves. I know better. Nice folks.
But, then, I find most folks I meet anywhere are nice folks. And I've been a bunch of places.
The thing is, I was treated well, had a great time.
But I also know that the folks I met were of two different sorts. One, was ... shall we say ... a bit more priviledged and free than the other. The other didn't complain, smiled a lot. But 6 months gave me plenty of time to be fully aware that this last group had things they might like to say ... but weren't gonna. Because they were afraid to.
And I'd been to numerous countries in that part of the world. And while I enjoyed myself, ate well, drank more than I should have sometimes, and chased ... and caught my fair share of the ladies. Fact was, I knew the "average" Chinese person had a far more modest life style than the folks I was hanging around with.
Bob
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LOL.......
I can see it now........
Hamei put in prison for telling "Joe-Six-Pak" in America his government and media has been pushing the wrong story about China for all these years.........
--


SVL



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On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:26:01 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"

Chuckle, I hardly think so.
I certainly have not read all of his posts. But the few I browsed certainly wouldn't have been considered "subversive".
And I doubt that China is a horrible place to live. I can think of, and have been to, much worse places. They are, however, restrictive.
I was actuallly hoping to find signs they're getting less restrictive.
Bob
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sherlock, you'd better call Mycroft in on this one ...

I thought that WAS your point, Bob .... that I'm not posting from China. Btw, if you weren't so sure I live in California I'd let you download the recording I made of the fireworks out the office window the other night. Or you could talk to my assistant if you want to dial long distance. Send a request for a phone number thru the pacbell email address :-)

I'm REALLY impressed by your vast knowledge of the Internet, Bob. Lessee, Did you bother to TRY the pacbell address ? Three guesses what happens when you send mail there. ONCE UPON A TIME I had pacbell for an ISP. Nowadays all them Usenet-generated 147k Microsoft viruses go who-knows-where and who-cares-where. Let pacbell deal with that crap. They deserve it. It looks like your Internet knowledge could use a second-quarter advanced course.

You don't know that I do ... in fact, I can't get to any geocities sites and DNS resolution here absolutely sucks. Other than that ..

here we go again. I'm not even going to respond to this crap other than to remark that it IS a bunch of crap.

It's pretty goddamned easy. Do like Spehro did and notice that it all goes thru Beijing. In case you didn't know, Beijing ia a city in China. I suppose that New Jersey packets could go thru Beijing also but it doesn't seem real likely. Btw, "was" ? I'm sitting here in Huzhou in wan long da sha listening to firecrackers go off this very second ... ain't no "was" about it.

Must be some more of that Sherlock stuff here ... WHY you think my mail goes thru pacbell, I have no idea. You CERTAINLY didn't check on it.
(Beyond that, it was actually funny : pacbell closed the SMTP service when I turned them off but they left the POP account running. So people could send me mail and I could get it but I couldn't send thru the Pacbell SMTP server. Well whoopee ! All you have to do is configure sendmail to go direct and away ya go, a free mail account Took them a good six months to notice.)

oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. And you can end up in jail for life for crimes you didn't commit in Texas, too. Whoop-deee-doo.

I believe *that*, Sherlock. Your powers of evidentiary collection have proven to be extraordinary so far. If you swing any harder at that crystal ball you're going to throw your back out.

Musta been dark and you made a mistake... the mouth is farther off the ground, in case you're ever in that position again.

Sigh. The train to Shenzhen costs all of 16 HK dollars, or about two bucks. The ferry is 160, or $20 US. Train from Shenzhen to Shanghai might be about 100 rmb, or twelve bucks American. The STREETSWEEPERS in Hong Kong make about what a middle management person does in China - 4,000 HK $$ ... soooo, Sherlock ....

snipped >>>
Bob, are your eyes brown by any chance ? Do you have problems with black helicopters ? Is that tin foil beanie really comfortable when you take a shower ? 'Cuz you know ? the rest of your post shows just about as much grasp of reality as we see in your Internet sleuthing.
Jesus ! it's been *days* now and they're still not out of fireworks ... That one sounded like the building next door fell down. Maybe it did ...
anyway ... Bob, you're more pleasant but just about as misguided as Gunner. If it makes you happy to invent conspiracies and DAMN ! either the Americans are invading or everyone is finishing off their fireworks before they have to go back to work tomorrow ...this is getting outta hand .... anyway, Bob, you're wacko. DNS here sucks and I think they may filter packets watching for tewwowists - either that or this is the slowest DSL on the planet, which is also possible - but hey now ! So does the US. In fact SGI recently got a huge contract to supply some bigass boxes to the American KGB, so every cloud has a silver lining, dui bu dui ?

I don't believe I've ever said doodly about "who I am" ... other than talk about what's going on around me, anyway. And who I am is definitely who I is, nothing I can do about that.

c'mon over, Jack. Others have ... I don't think I'll ask you to stay in my house - no landing pad for the black helicopters - but Huzhou bin guan is only a few blocks away, a nice room costs 328 rmb/night, so there ya go,

More of that Sherlock vast Internet knowledge, I see ... guess what, Bob ? We pay China Telecom for the DSL connection. And not to be too picky but your remarks about the only three service providers in China ? That's also nonsense. In China we have China Telecom, a part of the government with offices in the post office and China Unicom which might or might not be government- connected, I dunno. Nobody else that I was able to find during an *extensive* search for a possible static IP provider. Not that there couldn't be some small ones hidden somewhere but for biggies, that's it. Another bit of your vast China knowledge seems to be incorrect ...
Holy shit ... one more thing. If this isn't China, someone sure as hell changed the laws in California 'cuz we now have shit going off that makes a Lucasfilm extravaganza sound like an Al Jolson record. That last series shook the building and lit up the entire block .. lucky no windows got shattered. Freedom, yeah ... you guys got a lot. Probably stashed away in a back closet for a rainy day.
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On 25 Jan 2004 07:43:20 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net (Excitable Boy) wrote:

The information I got about the ISP providers in China ... came from the Chinese government itself, Hamei.
If you'd actually read my post, without making presumptions as to my purpose, you'd have noted that.
The rest of the stuff about the blocking and censorship 1) The Chinese government themselves admit to, and say it is their right. And I did not even debate the point that they had the right. 2) Is well documented by everyone and their brother, sources coming from MANY different countries, not just the US.
So I was simply stating fact. And not once did I say the Chinese should be bashed about this. Their government, their right. I don't agree, but it's not my country. So said no more about it other than the fact that I was trying to establish if there was some evidence that perhaps they were loosening up on their restrictions.
Tell me something, Hamei ... why are you so angrily defensive?
As to the PacBell thing, I didn't attempt to send you email because that is not my way. I don't just ping people and bother them uninvited. Period. Particularly people I do not know, who have not established a willingness to talk to me.
I've been on the net since before it was called the Internet, Hamei. You can ask, or do a search in archives if you wish. I don't believe you'll find anyone who'll say that I ever emailed em without our having first chatted together via Usenet post, or some other means. Nor will you find any instance in which I posted something to someone else, who ignored said post and did not respond to me, where I did not let the matter drop. And did not hound the person to talk to me or respond to me. If you wish, email me and I'll give you past IDs I've used and you can check it out for yourself.
None of those things are the way I conduct myself, Hamei.
That you were posting out of a Beijing run ISP was beside the point. As I said to Spehro. That whole thing avoided my specific question. Which was about the Pacbell thing. I was already aware China had it's own ISP's. NOT MY QUESTION !!!
Now, if you'll pardon me. I have better things to do than to argue with overly rude, overly sensitive, argumentative people. If you did not wish to speak to me, it was simple. Don't respond. Or say go away.
Good bye, Hamei.
And, regardless of your thoughts, my best to you and yours.
Bob
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oh, let's see why a person could become slightly riled ...other than the fact that you called me a liar, no real reason ... with all your great knowledge of the Internet you are so stewpid as to claim someone is a liar based on an email address in google WHICH YOU DIDN'T EVEN CHECK. Oh yeah, then you decided that becasue of the times I post at, I MUST be living in California and LYING about China ... sure, no one's liable to get upset by claims like that, what the heck, we all like to be called liars.
How about if we turn the tables, Bob ? how about if I said everything YOU have talked about here is a pack of lies ? *I* can come up with proof that I live in Huzhou. What do we have from YOU except a bunch of worthless bytes ?
Are you running away now because it's going to become painfully obvious very quickly that you are full of bear squat ?
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On 25 Jan 2004 19:58:35 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net (Excitable Boy) wrote:

LOL.. this is funny... ok everybody.. Hamei really is in China .. really!!
Later, Mike
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Mike,
Got foorp ???
--

SVL



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Santa Cruz Mike wrote:

gut Bob G is in outter space.
John
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Santa Cruz Mike wrote:

But we don't know where Bob G. is.. probably in outter space.
John
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Santa Cruz Mike wrote:

But we don't know where Bob G. is.. probably in outter space.
John
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Here's a secret: Gunner actually is in Newport, RI, living on a yacht.
Ed Huntress
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On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:09:20 GMT, "Ed Huntress"

Nope..I moved it to Martha's Vineyard so I could mingle with the rest of the hoi poi.
Gunner
"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will, through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs, Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota). The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability. Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones, of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines." Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking
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On 25 Jan 2004 19:58:35 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net (Excitable Boy) wrote:

Hmmm.
Hamei, obviously what we have here is a failure at understanding.
And also quite obviously the failure is almost certainly my fault. As I initiated the communication, and obviously did a poor job at conveying my thoughts.
Unfortunately I have a habit of "thinking out loud", even on a keyboard. Am a touch typist, do not edit things I type, and simply type the thoughts that come to me as they come to me.
As a net result, unfortunately, my posts tend to be too long, as they often contain my thoughts and musings which often bore people, confuse them as to my meanings, and contain the trivia of a wandering mind still forming it's own thoughts and conclusions which are sometimes not even arrived at as yet.
So, I'll try to be clear.
First, Hamei, if I intended to call you a liar ... you'd be under no doubts of it. I'd have said you were a liar, straight out if that was the conclusion I'd come to. It is my way.
Even if in person, if I think a man is a liar, he'll know, because I won't say it behind his back, it'll be to his face. Whether he likes it or not. I do not ever bad mouth a person behind his or her back.
I did not call you a liar.
I was thinking aloud about the questions in my mind concerning whether or not you were actually in China.
If you do not know, Hamei, a great deal of what people claim and say on the internet tends to be rubbish, fantasy, and wannabe type stuff.
Thus it is my habit of never presuming that anything I read on the net is the truth. Almost an automatic reflex for me to question, compare one thing said against another, ask myself "Do these things match?", does what is said match up with some other verifiable source, etc?
No offense intended to you, Hamei. I do this almost always.
If I offended you, it was unintentionally, for which I apologize.
I don't apologize, nor retract anything else of what I said.
I asked about your apparent Pacbell connection. No, I did not ping it nor did I send you email. And I explained why. I tend to avoid sending any uninvited/unsolicited email to anyone, except businesses. As to whether or not you had an Chinese ISP in addition to the Pacbell thing, was of no particular interest to me. What I was interested in was the original question, which I've tried to clarify too many times now and both you and Sperho at first seemed to be sidestepping.
I was wondering 1) If you were really in China, and 2) if so how were you managing to use a Pacbell ISP? That was my question.
Simply having a Chinese server show up in the routing would tell me nothing about whether or not you were actually in China, Hamei.
I am much too old, and have been around too much to make any assumptions based simply on that. I have myself played that trick more than a few times.
And if you actually read and followed a link in one of my previous posts discussing the fact that China does in fact filter, block, and monitor internet traffic. You'd have read how Ben Edelman and Jonathan Zittrain, researchers at Harvard Law School's Berkman Center for Internet & Society, did exactly that. Going in thru backdoors in China to make it appear that their access to the net was originating in China, so they could test out exactly what sort of things were being blocked.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/03/tech/main531567.shtml
I posted the link to that report in a previous post. I do note you have seemingly refused to address the matter. Or perhaps were in a hurry, and eager to ridicule me and simply over looked it.
FWIW, even having read that article, Hamei, I did not presume it to be truth as I almost never presume any single source to be automatically correct or truthful. Not that I make a presumption that someone is necessarily lying. But people make errors, rash presumptions and assumptions, form conclusions on partial sets of facts, and so forth. So I checked further.
As I mentioned in a previous post, all one has to do is a Google search on China+censorship and one finds a LOT of other, independent sources verifying the same thing. Nor are they all American, so it's not some US conspiracy to mislead people.
Am I still seeing black helicopters and wearing a tin foil hat, Hamei?
<Shrug> Perhaps I am. But that would surprise me as I am not much given to seeing things which are not there. And when seeing black helicopters ... or ghosts ... it'd be my tendency not to run and hide but rather to attempt to chase either down and investigate it,

As noted above, Hamei. If my intention had been to call you a liar, I'd have said that flat out. In a post, or face to face.
It was not my intention.
That's why I explained what caused to me have some doubts, to "suspend" belief without thinking you were either truthful or lying since I did not have enough evidence to decide one way or the other, and then to ask you.
If I'd been convinced you were a liar, Hamei, I'd have simply dismissed your posts altogether unless I'd had reason to call you on a lie. And I did not. Don't know you, ain't never gonna meet you, if you'd been lying would have made no difference to me as you'd not been using a lie to harm anyone, etc.
I read people's posts, in which they are undoubtedly lying all the time. 99% or better of the time it's simply not worth the time to bother calling them on it. To what purpose? I have to have a reason to even bother.
In your case, I couldn't make up my mind, so I asked. Because I was interested in the Pacbell link thing. Not in Hamei, not in his discussions with friends, or his arguments with others, not in his brags, stories, and so forth. Nothing against you Hamei, I simply don't know you and don't follow the group where you hang around. Someone crossposted a post.
I was interested in the Pacbell thing.
You answered that, with a reasonable answer. And I have no reason to disbelieve it. It fits, it's reasonable.
Add, that in your previous seemingly angry response to me you gave me a further clue.
I was not impressed about the naming of places and prices. Anyone could look up such things, it's not as if they're secrets, and some of the names were familiar to me.
But you did say one, minor thing which convinced me you are most likely truthful about being in China. Or if not, you've likely spent significant time around the Chinese.
Just as anyone could easily look up city names and places, typical prices of transportation and so forth. So can they easily look up a few Chinese words and phrases. However, there would be things about any language a person would not easily know or pick up on unless they'd actually been around the people speaking the language. In your post you used "dui bu dui" in the same context as one who is Chinese, or at least has spent significant time around them.
So my "suspension of belief", my unwillingness to either believe or disbelieve, has changed. I have no particular reason to doubt you any longer.
And I apologize for bothering you and upsetting you.

Believe as you wish, Hamei. It is your right.
My best to you and yours.
Bob
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