OT - Jobs Lost

I have traveled most of the world and have seen people in countries with far less the we (Canada & USA & Europe) accomplish miracles with what they have - far less than we do - wait till they get "tooled up." Besides exporting our *purchasing power* what we are doing when we "offshore" or "outsource," is getting rid of the very thing which makes us productive - experience. I have a senior position in the software industry where this is rampant and the conventional wisdom says that we will "Manage it form here and do the work there." The problem is that *good* managers have experience behind them - when you export the entry level stuff, you are also exporting the tasks that give you experience - our educational systems are not equipped to fill the gap. The people who will be the best managers are the ones who came up through the ranks. I can't tell you how many MBA or Ph.D. people I know who understand the *theory* but can't open a tin can (metal content) without creating a disaster. In the end, if the trend continues, we're going to have our lunch handed to us
Just my .02
Tom
Reply to
surftom
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The idea that these things are inevitable is taking a hit recently from some economists and others. There's a good article about it in the March issue of _Harper's_ ("The Collapse of Globalism And the Rebirth of Nationalism", by John Ralston Saul). It will be on newstands sometime next week or so.
After Malaysia told the globalizers to take a hike a few years ago, and then emerged from the Asian currency crises faster and better than any of the IMF Asian serfs did, the idea of the inevitability of market forces has been on shaky ground. It could turn out to be no more inevitable than Marx's international communist revolution.
Ed Huntress
Reply to
Ed Huntress
First off, the white house has little ability to do modify the economy at all. But they *will* be blamed for hard economic times, because they happened on THEIR watch.
Jim
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Reply to
jim rozen
Well they are insulated, that for sure. The recent economist's gaffe proved that. "What's wrong with that, it's true, right?" Foot in mouth disease.
Jim
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Reply to
jim rozen
And the first largest number of personal bankruptcies was when?
I simply do not understand how Bush can have any bearing on the economy and the job drain as the work is sent overseas.
Please tell me in short phrases that even a poor ol ignoramous like me can understand, exactly that Bush can do about this. Or has done cause this.
Gunner, waiting with interest for specifics, not grandious Anti-bush emotions.
"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas
Reply to
Gunner
In article , Spehro Pefhany If there was sufficient supervision by a few good surgeons (maybe
LOL. Just think, someday you might hear the comment: 'who'd want to be a doctor? That's the same as being a machinist.'
Jim
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Reply to
jim rozen
And the Democrat will be just as helpless as the current incumbent to stop the flow.
What would YOU do to stop this? Be specific. Use as much paper as you need.
Gunner
"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas
Reply to
Gunner
Doesn't matter if Bush was or was not the cause of the job drain. The jobs are gone, Bush is in the White House and many Americans are wondering if the Government can be outsourced to some group that can do the job cheaper and make fewer mistakes.
Regards,
Marv
Gunner wrote: SNIP
Reply to
Marv Soloff
Yes, And?
What can the Government do to stop this drain?
Gunner
"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas
Reply to
Gunner
Offhand, I would say the problem is attitude. Screw the American taxpayer, spend billions improving the lot of some oil rich Arab, bite the hand that feeds you, etc. I'll bet Mr. Bush (both of them) never missed a meal. Soon there will two classes of people:
a) Shoppers at WalMart b) Workers at WalMart.
Neither of these groups can pay the tax load this administration has imposed on the people of this country.
We are fast becoming a third-world country. The current man in the White House has to shoulder the blame for this.
Regards,
Marv
Gunner wrote:
Reply to
Marv Soloff
That was a nice rant. Specious, but nice.
Now answer the question, what can Bush or the government do to correct the drain?
Gunner
"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas
Reply to
Gunner
I would say that US corporations that move their manufacturing overseas should pay some kind of penalty. Classifying their goods which are imported into the US as foreign imports, and making some kind of tarrif would be one way to do this.
Or for example, for every job that a US company sends overseas, they have to contribute to some kind of general unemployment or re-training fund.
Right now, some big blue company can realize more profit if it sends software engineering or purchasing jobs overseas. If they knew in advance that the actual benefit to be had by doing this was some smaller fraction because of the employee offset rule, they would think harder about doing it.
Yes this is regulation on business. I honestly doubt that the issue can be solved by *not* regulating business practices to a larger degree. I think that govenment in general (and here of course this includes clinton and nafta, this is a truly bi-partisan issue) likes to take a hands-off approach to this stuff. Maybe it's time the pendulm swung the other way and govenment decided to enforce a rule that says,
"The prime directive of corporations is no longer to provide ROI for investors."
And by the way, US based corporations that have more than XX percent of their employees in foreign countries will be taxed at double rate.
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
Reply to
jim rozen
What's even more fun is that a manager from Delhi or Bejing is much cheaper than one from MIT or Cambridge.
Mark Rand RTFM
Reply to
Mark Rand
On 13 Feb 2004 19:42:26 -0800, jim rozen brought forth from the murky depths:
Now where's another "Perot" when you need him? This is a real crisis for those of us who can't stand the thought of either potential candidate becoming/remaining Prez.
If he'd said that in late October, the voting public might have remembered it, but only the displaced workers will by November, especially if they're still out of work.
Reply to
Larry Jaques
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:16:25 GMT, Spehro Pefhany brought forth from the murky depths:
I had to look up "special trade assistance" and found this
formatting link
immediately reminded me of the Peroism re: NAFTA's "Giant sucking sound..."
Reply to
Larry Jaques
On 14 Feb 2004 06:57:27 -0800, jim rozen brought forth from the murky depths:
What this country needs is a new Great White(/other color) Hope!
Reply to
Larry Jaques
I think the problem is, the republicans are living in a bit of lofty tower. The gent who made the comment was probably quite non-plussed at the furor it caused.
Trouble is, GWB has a large number of such true believers around him, and short of duct-taping all their mouths shut, he's going to be hard pressed to prevent any re-occurence in the future.
I think howlers like this get blurted out all the time, but they only seem to matter around election time.
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
Reply to
jim rozen
Don't blame this White House team - it has been going on for some years. Congress is over sold on the ideas. They just retire.
My concern is when push gets to shove time, who do I import my army or army arms from to fight the invasion .... Maybe the guard will have some old stuff left over.
Martin
Marv Soloff wrote:
Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn
My but thats nice. Mussolini would have loved that.
Ok, tell your congress critter to propose a bi partisan bill to do this. See how many of the pukes on both sides of the asle will vote for it.
Or do you expect Bush to sign an executive order placing restraints on trade as you have outlined above? Then we can listen to the howls from the Left.
Wanna rethink this again? Gunner "To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas
Reply to
Gunner

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