OT - Jobs Lost

Gotta love it!
From the BBC this morning:
"Economist caught in US jobs storm
Mr Bush wants to defuse public anger over jobs
A top White House economic adviser has issued what amounts to a public apology after appearing to praise the movement of US jobs overseas.
Gregory Mankiw, the president's chief economic adviser, said outsourcing of jobs was "probably a plus for the economy in the long run".
Where do they find these people?
Regards,
Marv
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At Princeton, Harvard, and MIT. He's sold over a million economics textbooks.
Here's the short story: Did you happen to read my article, "The China Conundrum"? If so, you noted that I listed a hierarchy of economic interests in trade. Mankiw is in the top tier -- those who are interested only in the economy as a whole. That is to say, only interested in GNP. His line about jobs is right out of the conservative economics playbook, as written by Hayek, Friedman, et al.
His mistake here was saying it in public. The fact is, what he said is right in line with this administration's economic philosophy. To understand how it's supposed to benefit the US, you have to read the whole story. There's one chapter in Milton Friedman's _Free to Choose_ that lays it out simply and clearly. I forget the chapter name.
Unfortunately for them, this philosophy runs into problems in an election year. <g> So now he has to pretend he didn't mean it. But he did.
Ed Huntress
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From the classical Economist's standpoint he is probably right though you can't sell it to someonw who has been laid off two years ago and saw his entire company move to Macau.
More fun and games in this election year!
BTW - the BBC website is great - much good stuff (and Blair bashing) there. Worth a look.
Regards,
Marv
Ed Huntress wrote:

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Yeah, that's good advice. I try to go there every day.
Ed Huntress
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Yep, a lot of which they make up. They also take every opportunity to bash America. I can do without that trash. Got their asses cought recently and a whole passel of them quit. Good riddance. Greg Sefton
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Bray Haven wrote:

And how do you know that?

yeah, I know. You prefer Fox News. Nice and cozy. And don't forget the flag waving.
Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com
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They've been caught fabricating "news" over & over again and embellishing the stuff they didn't make up. Where have you been "ab"?? Now the govt is talking about disbanding it altogether because it's credibility is zilch. You obviously have something against the flag. Your posts reflect it. Too bad thr USSR btoke up. We could send your ass over there & you'd have been happy :o). Greg Sefton
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There is a countervailing movement among conservative populists to the effect that it is a national security nightmare to export our employment skills base in high tech, heavy manufacturing, etc. to countries like China, whose military leaders have recently made statements in policy journals that they will someday nuke LA. We have relied upon the fact that our R&D infrastructure is so much more sophisticated than the 3d World that we can coast simply on R&D while exporting our manufacturing capacity. The 3d World is growing up fast however, and soon our kids will have to compete head-to-head against their counterparts overseas who are more highly motivated, more hungry for a taste of prosperity, and who know it's a long way down if you're not competitive. Our biggest failure as a society is not that we are losing our manufacturing base, but that we are losing the will and know-how to have one.
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China,
that
Do you have a reference for this latter point?
Ed Huntress
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Pierre Bongo wrote:

Would you please let us know where you read those statements. What policy journbals are you talking about?
Or are you just another typical red blooded hot heraded American commie bashing redneck?
Whacko! Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com
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Look moron, a very few years ago it was all over the national papers that a Chinese General had made an overt threat that they would nuke LA in response to our presence in the Far East. It came out in the ensuing hubub that this was far from a wild statement by a fringe rogue general, but was an accepted inevitability in the consensus of scholarly Chinese policy discussions.
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Yep. Do folks really care that the prez lied about WMDs?
No.
Do they really care that GWB was a draft dodger?
No.
Do they really care that he's presided over the biggest trashing of civil rights in a *long* time?
No.
But just exactly how do the feel if they've been out of work and can't make their car/house payments, and oil and gas prices keep on going up and up?
Pretty angry no doubt. As long as GWB keeps the sleight of hand running to confuse the issues, there's no fallout. But when somebody comes right out and says it:
"yep, we're sending your jobs to china, and that's exactly what we wanted to do, it's good for us, too bad for you"
then it's a lot harder to hide behind the prestidigitation.
Jim
================================================= please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================
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Maybe you should try some decaf Jim :o). Greg
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Well there's that too. I think this election really will be one that polarizes folks, gets them out to vote. There's already scuffling (the NY times had a huge page with a pretty even coverage of the Kerry/Fonda photo, and the "Where's George?" issue of his national guard non-event.
Having an economic advisor come out and blurt out what he did, is going to cause some major red faces, and probably his own pink slip. That's *such* a senstive issue right now, I think it may be the single one that decides the election.
Jim
================================================= please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================
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brought forth from the murky depths:

Now where's another "Perot" when you need him? This is a real crisis for those of us who can't stand the thought of either potential candidate becoming/remaining Prez.

If he'd said that in late October, the voting public might have remembered it, but only the displaced workers will by November, especially if they're still out of work.
--
Impeach 'em ALL!
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I think the problem is, the republicans are living in a bit of lofty tower. The gent who made the comment was probably quite non-plussed at the furor it caused.
Trouble is, GWB has a large number of such true believers around him, and short of duct-taping all their mouths shut, he's going to be hard pressed to prevent any re-occurence in the future.
I think howlers like this get blurted out all the time, but they only seem to matter around election time.
Jim
================================================= please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:26:24 GMT, Larry Jaques

Notice in the news recently Perot who refered to the "sucking sound" with NAFTA has reorganized his operation creating 3500 new jobs in India. Do I hear a Perot BJ in the wings!!

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forth from the murky depths:

When was that? I haven't seen anything about it. The latest mention of Perot on CNN is 2000. Salon.com says he might run in 2004. EDS mentions London contracts on their site, not India. Perot Systems doesn't mention reorg. (Aha, google news has it, 23 hours ago) http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_idR726 They're hiring 3,500 and have laid off 2,000 people worldwide in the past 2-1/2 years. It doesn't say how many were "ours" or if any were rehired/relocated/etc.
Do you know anything more about it? If so, cite it, please.
--
Impeach 'em ALL!
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:08:59 GMT, Larry Jaques

This might be what you're looking for http://united-states-of-earth.com/article.asp?MenuID 56
Wayne
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Well, thanks to the furor over Bush's National Guard status 30 years ago, this economic story got pretty well buried. For the average voter, if the media isn't constantly beating the drum about it, it doesn't exist as an issue.
Gary
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