OT - Jobs Lost

Absolutly correct. It would finish off the Democratic party. Drive a stake through its heart.

Id be happy to supply the stake.

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

The Springfield rifle and IRRC the Enfield rifles were modifications of the Mauser patent, and the US had to pay royalties to the Germans for every rifle we manufactured to kill Germans with.

As I recall, we payed the royalties at the end of the war.

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

As someone said about 5 yrs ago...

Its the Economy, Stupid!

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

I think it was about 12 years ago.

There is a countervailing movement among conservative populists to the effect that it is a national security nightmare to export our employment skills base in high tech, heavy manufacturing, etc. to countries like China, whose military leaders have recently made statements in policy journals that they will someday nuke LA. We have relied upon the fact that our R&D infrastructure is so much more sophisticated than the 3d World that we can coast simply on R&D while exporting our manufacturing capacity. The 3d World is growing up fast however, and soon our kids will have to compete head-to-head against their counterparts overseas who are more highly motivated, more hungry for a taste of prosperity, and who know it's a long way down if you're not competitive. Our biggest failure as a society is not that we are losing our manufacturing base, but that we are losing the will and know-how to have one.

I recoil to defend George Bush, but there is a level of falsehood that no reasonable person can endure, so here goes:

This is such crap. The entire world knows that Saddam had WMDs because EVEN THE FRENCH news agencies reported that he used poison gas on Kurdish civilians. EVEN CLINTON stated outright that he had them. Fourteen UN resolutions demanded that Saddam make specific disclosures regarding what he did with his WMDs or be forced to do so. He refused. Clearly Saddam's refusal to disclose was because he wished people to believe that he still had these weapons. The determination of whether Saddam still had these weapons - when he refused to disclose the facts - was clearly a highly speculative endeavor from the outset. This whole "Bush lied" drumbeat is simply made in bad-faith by outright liars.

This is also such crap. My uncle was in the guard reserves, and was on Iwo Jima before the marines landed. For his conduct he got the silver star. Let's just settle your bullshit assertion: the reserves are not 'draft-dodging.' When Viet Nam was hot, that same uncle called me and told me to do any legal thing to stay out of that war, because "they don't know what they're doing." As it turned out, the draft ended the year I would have been drafted, and I didn't have to do anything, but I wouldn't fault anyone for taking any legal steps to avoid that war. As it was, Bush was in fact trained to fly a particular jet fighter, and was available - if his group had been called up, which it wasn't. There is simply a cadre of liars who spew this crap to see if it will stick. And let's just deal with this AWOL crap: AWOL is a legal term for a particular offense: 1) being under a particular order to appear for a particular duty; and, 2) failing to appear as ordered. There has never even been a credible assertion that Bush was ever AWOL, so why bray to that effect?

Ahh now there's some intellectual input :o). A little decaf wouldn't hurt you either, Dale. Good name though (my middle). Greg

Yep, could be Jim, It'll be headlined as TCI Vs Hanoi John.. Might even get on pay per view :o) Greg Sefton

Pierre, I couldn't agree more with your dissertation. However as a lover of donkeys & mules, I must protest the negative conotation you associate with the noble voice of these great animals. :o)

Greg Sefton "There is no character howsoever good and fine, but it can be destroyed by ridicule howsoever poor and witless. Observe the ass, for instance: his character is about perfect, he is the choicest spirit among all the humbler animals, yet see what ridicule has brought him to. Instead of feeling complimented when we are called an ass, we are left in doubt."

Mark Twain, From Pudd'nhead Wilson,

1894

You missed the entire point of my previous post. Anyone who's seen their job outsourced overseas simply doesn't care about any of that crap.

Thos issues (true or false as they may be) are concocted simply to sell newspapers or airtime, and to help one political party mud-sling at another.

The family that has lost its wage earners doesn't really care about that stuff.

Jim

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Then we are in complete agreement. More jobs, stop the outsource stuff - incumbent wins.

Econcomy keeps sliding, deficits keep mounting, jobs keep staying away in droves - democrat voted in.

Jim

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You forgot one.

Jim

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And they also forget that the doctors and enginners have

*patients*, and *clients*. If those patients and clients have lost their jobs then the doctors and engineers are out of work as well.

That's the problem with saying "enter the health care fields, they can't outsource those..." Who's going to pay for the doctor visits?

I think it's not a terribly big suprise that the oft-decried healthcare 'crisis' happens to be heating up at the same time the outsourcing thing is taking hold. Health care and health insurance is costing more and more simply because the folks who are insured, or can otherwise pay, are now subsidising an increasingly large portion of unemployed.

Next step will be to simply ship sick folks overseas, to take advantage of the lower rates. I know some who do this for dentistry. Wonder what the AMA will do when we start outsourcing medical procedures?

Jim

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And even *you* missed the point gunner - nobody really cares about that media circus when they've been laid off, or worse, when both wage earners in a family have been laid off. [1] They're scrambling and no doubt not too happy about the incumbent.

When a crash happens, folks blame the captain who's on watch at the moment. Did clinton start this off? Sure he did. Blame rests with him as well.

Ufortunately for GWB, teh attention span of the average voter is about one paycheck long. Bill Clinton is ancient history, I doubt you're going to see GWB campaigning against *him* this november.

It would be stupid to do so.

Jim

[1] This past year saw the second largest number of personal bankrupcies ever, in a one year period. Most of them were as a result of one member of a two-income household either having a medical crisis, or getting pink-slipped. Interestingly the efforts to make personal bankrupcies tougher to perform have been met with resitance from the anti-abortion folks, because bankrupcies are one way they get around judgments. So here we have strange bedfellows indeed.

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Do you have a reference for this latter point?

Ed Huntress

They are already scanning medical X-rays and e-mailing them to South Asia to be interpreted. Cosmetic surgery is being done for Western Europe in Eastern Europe (with special clinics set up by countries with very little money like Poland just to serve the rich countries).

With telepresence robotics, not only could a good surgeon from a big-city teaching hospital be effectively brought to a remote rural area, but an Indian surgeon could (theoretically, anyhow) be brought from Bangalore or Mumbai to Boston or Montréal with no visa and no travel costs.

Of course the latter case is where then the safety card will be played. Unregulated..blah..blah..public safety..blah..blah.. no free market (and most definitely no trusting of Indian medical standards). If there was sufficient supervision by a few good surgeons (maybe covering several times their normal workload), it might even be a good thing for it to happen all told.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

I draw the line at having my EKGs and heart xrays read in Bombay. I trashed my Dells and AOL because their customer service is offshore. I really have nothing against the Indians, but I want my American based goods and services done here. Next, McDonalds will be airfreighting Big Macs from Calcutta to New Jersey. Costs half as much to make there, including the airfreight. I am beginning to think the White House has become so insulated from reality that the future employment trend is very frightening.

Regards,

Marv

Spehro Pefhany

Yeah, pretty soon all the frozen foods that are used at fast food places will be prepared is some third world country. Go to a fast food place and the wrappers will have english, french, spanish, portugese, farsi, etc. printed on them.

The White House has very little to do with the offshoring of customer service jobs, particularly in the PC industry. The fact of the matter is that the shareholders of these companies keep demanding a return on their investment. In order to achieve those returns in a commoditized industry like the PC business there is very little that can be done other than cut wages. Since customers continue to demand technical support on their computers, vendors like Dell have little alternative than to find cheaper labor. Heck, Dell hires electrical engineers with masters degrees to answer tech support calls in Bangalore, India for $12,000 per year. A high school graduate support tech in Austin, TX costs Dell almost $50,000 per year. If you were a shareholder in Dell what decision would you want Mr. Dell to make? I'll bet there aren't many who would give away that $190 million dollars of profit every year to keep the jobs here.

Until