Remington 9 mm recall

Some where in my memory, I think I remember that the 9mm luger is lighter and weaker than the .38 spl. Do you remember that also?

So, figure that the luger will allow for more Yankee Doodles, cut up into chopped meat, before the less than civilized stands down.

Those less that civilized Philippinos were Moros, or Moors. which is how the Spanish referred to the Muslim population. Over 100 years later, they still are a problem in the Philippines and are still less than civilized. The US failed to eliminate the problem.

Stormin Mormon wrote in news:sD8Dv.127819$Ji3.18220 @fx16.iad:

I think you have to compare weiht and velocity. 9 means ball wih a metal jacket, though, not your best stopper in any caliber. At least the .38 can go with lead, allowing for some deformation.

Nope. The .38 usually has a 158 gr bullet while the 9mm maxes out at 147. The diameters are equivalent, .357 versus .355. However, the .38 is an old, low pressure round from the black powder days while the 9mm is loaded to much higher pressures. For almost all loads, the 9 will have a higher muzzle energy and velocity.

Then there is the other factor. Afaik, the only production .38 semi was the S&W 52, which was a 5 shot target pistol. Coonan and Desert Eagle have made .357 semis but I doubt they would cycle reliably with a .38 round.

There are 8 shot revolvers set up for full moon clips , mostly for competition but the standard is 6 or 5 for snubbies. There are some people who can reload a revolver very rapidly; most can't. Put that up against a 9 with 13, 16, or 19 rounds on tap and you'll know why the world went to semis.

I didn't know if that had changed since the '60s where officers, NCOs, SP's and other selected people carried sidearms.

That's an unproven assumption that continues to be debated. I assume that by .45 you mean a model 1911. My point is that a real-world comparison between pistols and cartridges has never actually been made, and that the guys most affected might be the best ones to make the comparison.

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[Ed]

Well, there are some real-world comparisons between cartridges. For example, the FBI has data on the percentage of one-shot kills with various handgun cartridges. The last I looked was 15 or 20 years ago, and the winner then was the .357 Mag. IIRC, the .45 ACP was second.

They should. The FBI seldom fire their guns. The soldier should be shooting very often. I have not shot a 10 mm but have several guns in the .40. From a Kel-tec pocket to the Glock 22. They all have a shape kick to them,but the larger Glock 22 is not bad at all to shoot with the 180 gr bullets. It is just about the most I really want to shoot a lot and am able to control it for faster shooting.

Much of the so called stopping power depends a lot on the ammo used. A standard 38 round is not going fast enough to expand much. Not sure if the military has FMJ rounds for it or not. The 9 mm is going much faster with a lighter bullet. IF a hollow point is used in the 9 mm it is much more effective than the standard 38, but there is that FMJ thing for the military.

I like what one of the older gun writers said one time , he would carry anything that started with a 4.

I have seen that a long time ago. Not too sure how accurate the study was. It may have been before the .40 S&W was in use. Also it is not a one shot kill, but how fast you can take someone out of the fight. Say you shoot someone with a .22 one time and it takes him 5 minuits to die, but he kills or wounds several others in that 5 minuits. That makes the .22 a one shot kill, but not a very effective round. With hand gun ranges, you need something that will take all the fight out of the person comming at you as quickly as possiable.

In "About Face" Col David Hackworth claimed that one motivation for moving away from the 45 was its unacceptable accident rate. As a senior officer and policy maker in TRADOC it was his job to know such things.

As I mentioned before I was issued a 45 and ammo to carry around Germany with ZERO training, I only had to sign for it. We had no firearms accidents, one car bombing and too many fatal crashes and drug-related knifings.

A colorful character:

-jsw

I have not looked at the 9 mm the military uses, but is there any real differance in the mechanical part of it and the 1911 to make it safer ?

If you carry any auto with a round in the chamber the hammer can be down or carried cocked and locked. The ones with the internal striker/hammer will be cocked and locked (just does not look as dangerous) except for the ones like the Glock or DAO .

Just Wondering wrote in news:53dc2591$0$21767$ snipped-for-privacy@usenet-news.net:

Not in FMJ. The .40 has better stopping power than a .45ACP because the rounds utilized in it in the civilian market. I don't think that would hold true if they both were FMJ.

The

Wound size from a .40 outside of consideration of type of round is about halfway the difference between a .45 and a 9mm (.355) or a .38 (.356).

Out of existing pistol cartridges, I

Yep, but it appears from FBI testing that small males and many female soldiers would have problems handling that round. A .45 is a comparatively soft round to shoot even compared to a .40 which tends to snap (with its civilian loads anyway). Additionally, most .40s are double stacked which requires larger hands. I am not that familiar with a 10mm.

Not if the thickness of the double stack mag makes it unwieldy for some in the service. I assume we are talking about a service pistol.

I believe that is also a Geneva requirement.

If the infantry is

Have to say, if I'm to be stuck using non-expanding ammo....I would much rather have the big old warhorse than the whimpy quarter horse.

Note: I would recommend you cut a notch in the rim or otherwise permanently and clearly mark the cases so that they aren't accidently reloaded for any other purpose.

One of the requirements for the testing that led to the adoption of the

9mm M9 was a safe way to lower the hammer on a loaded chamber. The 1911 does NOT have this, the M9 does. OTOH, the M9 has no cocked and locked option. The current Taurus PT92 series allows both a safe hammer drop and the option to carry cocked and locked.

BTW, I have made it a habit to retain the hammer and lower it slowly whenever activating a hammer drop safety.

David

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in news:lril71$vcr$1@dont- email.me:

I have been after gun shops who don't allow carry inside to do the same thing with clearing barrels filled with sand at the entrance.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in news:ktqdnQ9KIvcdtkDOnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com:

Which in a self defense role is the bottom line, not whether or not they die in that process.

Nah, I have to say home and read all the idiots on usenet. I get paid to keep track of you guys and assign grades. I'm sorry to report you are getting a failing grade even in the short bus division.