Why do equipment dealers hide their prices

This is it 99% of the time, the "how much have you got?".

There might be some of this, but i expect it's a fraction of a percent.

Ignoramus30459 fired this volley in news:38OdnVg65_oUcIHMnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

Exactly. All of them I've dealt with are like car salesmen. They want to 'negotiate' a price.

FWIW, many of them list equipment they "have", but don't have on site. They may have made a deal to off-load a factory somewhere. Rather than move it, they sell it in-situ.

Lloyd

I have been looking at Scion xBs lately. A used one, because the new ones have the wrong body. Anyway, I have emailed lots of dealers and they always want my last name. I don't give it to them though. One salewoman called to discuss a car and asked for my last name. I refused, telling her it was because I didn't want the spam that comes them having my whole name. She understood completely, wasn't at all surprised. There must be a lot of other folks that feel the way I do. Eric

It's because they're backwards and don't grasp anything newer than an elecric typewritter.

None of those places even contact you if fill out a quote form or call up.

Let them all fold. There's plenty of real businesses to deal with.

they might be pulling one of those scams like Sun Microsystems and Oracle did. If you got one quote from a dealer, all other dealers were "locked out" of giving you a second quote.

We switched to HP and got better products, service and support.

No, she just didn't want to argue with you. Instead, she agreed with what you said, as she would have done regardless of what you had said.

This makes her seem "friendly" to you, someone you can trust, someone you will be more eager to do business with, because she is "on your side", and "working for you".

And you fell for it hook, line, and sinker, just like the rest of us. :)

Jon

OK, just what I thought.

They want you as a prospect, above all. They want to qualify you (salesman's term) and to find out what you really want. If it happens to be the machine you're calling about, they'll start negotiating.

They don't expect to sell you that machine. But they expect to sell you something -- if you're qualified.

This is not what savvy advertisers of new machines do, but it's nearly universal among used-machinery dealers. Savvy advertisers know the research, and know they'll get more calls if they include a price. It may be high, but that's a qualifier, too.

P.S. If you want a full description of "qualified," just ask.

ask

Ignoramus30459 fired this volley in news:ltednStarbaNwYDMnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

No... ask the dealer!

The reputable dealers will even ship a machine "on spec", with the condition that you pay shipping both ways.

It's a great ploy, because shipping on "real metal" is usually pretty high, and the potential buyer has a great incentive to fix whatever's wrong with the machine, rather than ship it back.

Lloyd

Ok. There are several parts. It's easiest to explain the steps they go through. This is not absolutely universal, but in any decent size operation, it's like this:

When you call, the sales person has a "lead card" or "lead form" in from of him (or her). They want your name and company. It goes down on the form. Now you're his customer and he's "protected" from other salesmen at his company.

They respond nicely to your inquiry about XYZ machine. They'll often give you the asking price at this point. Then their questions and qualification start.

They want to know when you're planning to buy a machine (within 30 days, 90 days, one year, or you're just fishing.) If it's 30 days, you're qualified as "hot."

They may ask then how you plan to finance it, or if you want to finance through them. That's the first step in qualifying whether you're really able to pay. If you have a Dun's number, they'll know it, maybe even while you're on the phone. They want to know how well your company pays but they don't need to ask you about that. They have it from their Dun's report. If you don't have a Dun's number, they'll put that aside and continue with the qualifying.

They'll ask what you're using to do the job now. From that, you'll be qualified as an upgrade, a replacement, or new-project, if you're not actually doing the job at present.

From that they'll decide what they really want to sell you. As often as not, it's not the machine you're inquiring about. If you sounded stunned at the price they gave you at first, and if they have something cheaper, they may redirect to that. If you're still stunned, your qualification has just cooled down. Or they may have something better and they'll test you with that, to see how you respond.

All the while, they're trying to determine how serious you are. If you're serious, they'll hang on like a shark.

They'll have many negotiating points, which they'll use to get the price down without sounding like they're just dropping the price. Delivery time. Transformers and power. Tooling and accessories. Etc. Before they go very far with negotiations, if they're nearby, they'll do their best to get you to their facility to see the machine. If they don't really have the machine in their possession, they'll keep going and asking "qualifying questions."

Qualifying question examples: "Do you have your own rigger, or do you want us to handle that?" "Regarding financing, shall we get your information down now so I can get you an answer today or tomorrow?"

These can also be constructed as "closing questions," which are more blunt: "Shall we have it painted in your company's colors (if you're GM ), or will you handle that? When do you want to schedule a runoff?" "We can offer a variety of tooling options. Which of these three packages works best for you?"

They're called "closing questions" because a positive answer from you on one of them means you're sold. You're closed. Those questions are not open-ended; they give you specific options. If the salesman doesn't screw up, he's now counting on a sale.

The qualifying, then, determins if you're serious; if you're really able to buy; how quickly you need the machine, and if you're under any pressure to get it installed quickly; which machine is the one you really want or need; and similar things. You're "qualified" at one of several levels. The sales company may even use an "A, B, C, D, forget about it" scale. This is all info for the sales manager to manage his staff.

So, when do you want your new EDM, Mr. Chudov, this Friday, or will next Wednesday be Ok? NEVER ask that question, as a salesman, without providing specific options. The sales manager will kill you if you do. Those are closing questions, too.

If you're qualified but you aren't going to buy now, that salesman will hang on to you as a ranked lead, and you'll get mail, or e-mail, or phone calls, or all three.

who the hell has time for all that nonsense?

I send a list of what I want, my zip code and how I like things shipped. Suppliers gives me a price or they're out. They're welcomed to ignore me too, I'll be making a purchase, just not with them.

There's the ocassional item where you're stuck with one supplier due to "territories" and other obsolete relics from the past, but there's always alternatives to those obnoxious places.

That all happens in around 15 minutes. And I never sold a new machine tool for less than $70,000 -- most over $200,000. I've sold a few used machines, never for less than $25,000 that I recall.

That's the way it's done. If you don't go through those steps, you don't get a sale.

The "RFQ, best price wins" buyers, like you're describing, get a quick quote and move on to the next one. The ones like you are not very common in the machine tool business.

How in the hell do you know what you're buying?

Sounds sensible. Do you know of any book that I can read that teaches how to be a good salesman? I am the salesman at my company and, while I am able to sell, I would like to be able to sell more.

Hard to sell from an empty wagon.

Look up the name "Willy Loman", Ig.

Lloyd

In some cases it is because they sell on an international basis and prices in, say Chicago, will vary from costs in, say Singapore, due to transportation, tax, etc., costs.

That's a good question, and a good attitude. I know some old classics but I think there's much better stuff out there now. I'd peruse Amazon and read some reviews. Otherwise, there are associations, like the American Marketing Association (watch the AMA abbreviation-- it's doctors, too). They have book lists.

If you can't find what you want, check back. I wrote the sales manual for Oakite years ago, but if you aren't selling soap and cutting coolant, you probably want something else. d8-)