Why do equipment dealers hide their prices

This makes sense for run of the mill cheap items.

Not so much for higher priced items.

Reply to
Ignoramus30459
Loading thread data ...

What were they using as an emulsifying agent back then ?

Reply to
PrecisionmachinisT

Ya' got me. I just helped them sell it.

I know what the original Oakite powdered detergent was, though: 100% TSP.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

A lot been discussed; my take is pretty much in alignment w/ Ed's description.

For big-ticket items it's kinda' a crapshoot which way to go on listings imo (I'm a farmer so it's combines and tractors, etc., not machine tools, but the ideas are the same :) ).

By listing prices, it's a particular type of person one generally gets looking at a particular machine and they often are looking for a specific model and price range and will shop to match before contacting.

When contacting dealer who doesn't list, they've got the flexibility as outlined by Ed and more often the potential buyer isn't as fixated on a given model.

I don't know what marketing research shows, but I'm certain there's a log of psychology at work and there are plus/minus sides to both approaches from both the dealer and the potential customer.

The local "green paint" dealer is a mixed bag--they list some, not others...I'll have to ask R____ how/why he decides on which, sometime; hadn't really thought about it specifically.

Reply to
dpb

I realize a lot of equipment has a lot of options that will affect the final price, but I just can't see not listing at least a base price to give people a ballpark idea.

Reply to
Pete C.

My attitude is that if I have to request a quote, I'm not interested. I never liked used car salesmen, no matter where they work. Just like a poorly run retail store. My motto is, "If it isn't priced, it isn't for sale." I'll go somewhere that gives a damn about doing their job, since they are the ones who deserve to keep them.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

I agree. Even if that quote is full retail. At least it gives you a starting point. It saves both you and the dealer time & money if you know it's not in your budget.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

They just don't publish real selling prices for expensive machinery like high-end (eg. $300-500K )EDM machines.

Aside from the process (which is driven by business reasons, there is no reason to have an inflexible published price on something that is inevitably going to involve a lot of personal contact) there are other reasons. Considering how unstable (mostly to the downside the past decade or so) the US dollar is, it's hard to quote something in dollars when your costs are mostly in Japanese Yen or Swiss Francs.

Things like commercial aircraft have a sort-of list price, but the actual selling prices are not usually disclosed.

So, if you need that sort of thing from one of the few manufacturers and their agents, you really do have to go through the process and deal with the used-car salesmen along the way. Some are much better than others!

Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

That's true, and that's what advertising experience and research have shown. If you've been at this long enough, you'll notice that a *lot* more advertisers of machine tools include a price today than they did, say, 30 years ago. It's a mistake not to.

For Iggy's sake, there's something else that should be pointed out here. Before I got into publishing and machine tools, I sold garden tractors, generators, chain-link fence, swimming pools, and recreational property. I also sold houses for a couple of years.

In those days, a lot of selling was manipulative and cynical. A "closer" (I was one for recreational property sales in Michigan, where I had 16 employees at age 21) was a hard-boiled manipulator who played rough. We had "closing rooms" -- actually, trailers -- where the closer would work over the prospect. I was standing outside of one of those closing rooms once when a shoe came through a window. My boss was emphatically making a point. d8-)

Those days are gone. It started to change in the '80s. Reputations travel fast; people are smarter about products; repeat sales make up a larger percentage of industrial sales than they ever did.

And there is a more ethical class of salesmen out there. All together, these facts have changed selling a lot, and for the better. Trust is essential. Knowledge on the part of salesmen is more important. And the salesman's approach has to be to get the right product into the customer's hands. If you don't, selling terms today will probably result in the machine winding up back in your lap.

As Iggy picks up selling tips, I'd strongly suggest that serving the customer be the first thing on his mind, every time, when he's actually engaging in sales. That's the way to build a career. And the short-term, get-in-and-out opportunities are few and far between these days.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

For Iggy: Sell what you have now to the customer, and see what else they may be in need of that you could look out for and let them know if you come across.

Reply to
Pete C.

If you get a reply, you're at least dealing with a seller that is responsive. Prices and options can be worked on from there.

I recall having to weed out the clowns when helping select an office phone system years ago. It was a medium sized install of about $40,000 for the switch, heandsets and wiring.

the level of assholery from the vendors we had bid was incredible. You could tell they were checking off reasons to take us for a ride like how snazzy the office looked, what big deal clients we had etc.

The honest vendor would start off with questions like how many employees, what system do you have now, is there a system you like, what timeframe.

The scum would start out with how much money is in your bank account, how big deal of a company are you etc. People like to brag at this point, which is also a mistake, because it always gets the sales people excited and they start to add on stuff you don't need and extra zeros in pricing.

The other obnoxious thing sales folk do is provide some vague non-itemized quote.

One funny one I saw recently was $4000 to rackmount one server. This only came out when the itemized quote was demanded.

Most of this crap can be avoided if you, as the potential customer drive the process.

Reply to
Cydrome Leader

I agree with this, but you can't always buy stuff online, so the quote is needed, even if prices are listed.

For example, I ordered some stuff that had to be trucked from CA to IL, and I wanted a firm price on shipping before I handed over a CC number. Somestimes you can talk a place down a few bucks too with the whole I'll buy it right now if..." deal. Plus, it never hurts to ask if the place has some scratch and dent or floor model type items they just want out of there too.

Reply to
Cydrome Leader

Still, a posted MSRP for a basic model will tell you if it is a possible purchase, or if you have to hit the used market. Or a third option is to find another way to do the job without tying up all your capital.

A S&D price will save you some, but it is rarely an order of magnitude less. If it is, that should set off lots of alarm bells. A group landed a FCC CP for a new TV station near my old house about 25 years ago. A manufacturer offered them a real steal on the UHF transmitter that was on display at the NAB trade show. It turns out they were filing bankrupcy as the show closed. They left the country with close to a quarter million dollars. They had arranged to ship the transmitter somewhere else, and it all ended up in Federal court while the FCC CP expired. That was another $100,000 in fees down the drain.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

They could publish a base price, valid for 10 or 30 days. Just like IC makers post 'budgetary prices' with the base page for a component. It's know that isn't an exact price, but it puts you into the ballpark.

That's because no one ever buys the unfliable base model. Do you want engines on that 787? How about seats? Restrooms? They are bought off Chinese menus. :)

Some aren't worth the air they steal. I got one fired for trying to screw me out of a deposit, back in the '80s. He screwed up the paperwork, and the loan fell through. He told me to get lost, that I would never see my money again. I laughed and told him I knew the owner, and was called a liar. I heard someone call my name & turned around. It was the owner who asked, Why are you here? I pointed to his sales manger and said, This man is trying to keep my deposit. He told the man to follow him, and they went to his office. Much shouting ensued, and he was fired. I left with a refund check. I had wired his house for state of the art electronics of the day, and he was still thrilled with it. :)

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

I thought you said you just ask for a price, and they're up or out?

"Questions?" I thought you didn't have time for that nonsense.

Those are the same kinds of questions I described above. Most salesmen, if they don't know your company, will try to qualify whether you're a genuine potential buyer or not, as early as they can. You can waste enormous amounts of time with tire-kickers.

But if it doesn't fit into the conversation, you can just as well start off qualifying them on the basis of their needs. Which is exactly what you describe, and what I was talking about when I said the salesman has to get a handle on what machine is best for you.

If I put your two different responses together, it sounds like you give them an RFQ, and then, if they give you a quote, you start negotiating, right?

If you're specifying machine tools and you know exactly what you want (government agencies always pretend they do; so do academic institutions -- it's in their purchasing rules), then by all means, give them an RFQ and sit back. But you know, and everyone in the business knows, that doing so is little more than a pro forma exercise. All you have is a starting point, at best.

Most small- to medium-size buyers, such as job shops and very small manufacturers, don't have a formal RFQ procedure. They call and start talking. Or a salesman sees them regularly and starts talking with them when they need to make a purchase.

Iggy was asking about used machines, IIRC. You really can't write a sensible RFQ for them. Again, smaller and medium-sized companies, and dealers, handle substantial used machines about the same way they handle new ones. You make contact, you start talking, and you put your heads together to figure out what's really available and what you really need.

The salesmen you're describing don't sound very good. I could have fixed them, maybe, back when I was managing sales in the machine tool business. d8-)

Reply to
Ed Huntress

+1
Reply to
Larry Jaques

"Michael A. Terrell" on Fri, 15 Feb 2013

16:32:28 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

What sort of seats? How many? Restrooms, standard or deluxe. Engine package A or B. Dual Overhead windshield wiper knobs or the old fashioned singles. Tinted windshields? Crew bunks - fold down or set up? Twin or full size? Filtered or unfiltered? Pack or Crush proof box? Lettuce, pickle or slice of onion? Photon torpedoes - standard or heavy duty?

-- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Reply to
pyotr filipivich

IOW, it isn't a product, it's "Engineering to order". Like the Telemetry market I worked in for four years. No two customers bought excatly the same configuration, and a lot had custom firmware.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Ayup. Ive got friends and customers as dealers...and thats what they do, despite my scorn.

The methodology of the left has always been:

  1. Lie
  2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
  3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
  4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
  5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
  6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Reply to
Gunner

However...it does stop the tire kickers from calling.

The methodology of the left has always been:

  1. Lie
  2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
  3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
  4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
  5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
  6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Reply to
Gunner

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.