Yes! We're #1!

In other words, you're spouting nonsense that you can't back up when challenged to do so.

Dont be silly the US has a long record of funding terrorist groups like the IRA , and the contras, they used many dollars to ensure the provos got both Soviet and American weapons, The US funded the restoration and refurbishment program of the Iraqi armies small arms, 1000s of em got shipped overseas to eastern european factories and then were sent back to Iraq, iyts then the US mil handed them out like sweaties without keeping records.

Like I said ... you can't back it up.

Would Duncan Hunter, one of your guys be good enough? Lawmakers challenge Austrian sidearms purchase for Iraq By Amy Svitak and Richard H.P. Sia CongressDailyPM December 12, 2003

While some European officials are fuming at U.S. plans to reserve $18.6 billion in Iraq reconstruction contracts for allies who risked lives there, several U.S. lawmakers are upset that the Bush administration is buying European-made handguns to arm fledgling security forces in Iraq.

At least three lawmakers, including House Armed Services Chairman Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., have launched separate inquiries into what they believe is a sole-source contract awarded by the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq to Austrian gun manufacturer Glock. In a Dec. 3 letter to Ruben Jeffery, executive director of the CPA's Washington division, Hunter expressed his concern and questioned whether U.S. handgun manufacturers that supply U.S. police and military personnel were considered in the bidding.

"I feel that since the U.S. taxpayer is paying the largest burden for the reconstruction efforts in Iraq, U.S. companies, and the U.S. taxpayers they employ, should benefit from these dollars," wrote Hunter.

Glock, which maintains a North American headquarters in Smyrna, Ga., has manufactured handguns in Austria since the 1980s. The $19 million contract for 50,000 Glock Model 19 sidearms, with an option to purchase an additional 50,000 handguns, was awarded late this summer, several U.S. industry sources told CongressDaily. A company official in Smyrna confirmed that Glocks were selected for Iraqi security forces, but otherwise would not comment. A Glock attorney in Smyrna failed to return repeated telephone inquiries made in recent weeks. Hunter asked in his letter whether the Glock award was sole-sourced or competitively bid, and requested a list of companies that submitted quotes under the CPA's solicitation in the event that multiple sources were considered. He also questioned whether the CPA plans any more weapons purchases in 2004, and asked how such future procurements will be handled. A Pentagon spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Washington was unable to comment on Hunter's letter by presstime. But a committee spokesman said the chairman had yet to receive Jeffery's response.

In a Nov. 25 letter, Rep. Jeb Bradley, R-N.H., expressed similar concerns with Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. Bradley visited Iraq recently as part of a congressional delegation comprised of members of the House Small Business Committee interested in the reconstruction process and the competitive participation of U.S. companies for contracts.

"It would appear that the procurement process was not sufficiently open," Bradley wrote upon his return, adding that a lack of bidders might have artificially inflated the cost of the firearms.

Bradley asserted that SigArms, a Swiss firearms company with a manufacturing facility in his district, was not aware of the CPA's contract solicitation. "A representative of SigArms informed me that the company routinely monitors the the CPA Web site and was still unaware of the pending purchase and bidding procedure," Bradley said. A spokesman said Bradley had not yet received a response from Rumsfeld.

Rep. J.D. Hayworth, R-Ariz., whose district is home to the venerable firearms giant Smith & Wesson, directed his questions to Secretary of State Powell, asking in a Sept. 25 letter "why the order was made to a foreign manufacturer without consideration of any American manufacturers." U.S. industry sources said Rep. Richard Neal, D-Mass., has received complaints about the Glock purchases from Smith & Wesson, which runs a law enforcement training academy in his district. Neal's office was unable to comment by presstime. In addition, aides to House Small Business Chairman Don Manzullo, R-Illinois, who strongly favors limiting Iraq reconstruction contracts to U.S. firms, have been aware of the firearms deal for several weeks. Manzullo recently sought an explanation for the Pentagon's decision to outfit Iraqi police with Russian-made AK-47 automatic rifles and is likely to broaden his inquiry to include the Glock handguns.

Firearms companies with U.S. factories have been frustrated in their attempts to learn details from the CPA about the Glock contract, according to industry sources. Some congressional aides said they understood the CPA may have considered as many as eight companies for the handgun contract, but that U.S. suppliers apparently were either passed over or absent entirely from the solicitation process. Bob Scott, Smith & Wesson's president and board chairman, lamented the contract award and the the CPA's failure to respond to his company's interest in the solicitation.

"As a U.S. taxpayer and a U.S. manufacturer, I am greatly offended that my tax dollars are being used to buy foreign weapons for the Iraqis when there were U.S. companies that could have supplied that product," Scott told CongressDaily last week week.

But other industry sources suggested that the CPA may not have purchased the weapons directly from Glock, but through a U.S. middleman named Doug Kiesler, a firearms wholesaler based in Jeffersonville, Ind. Kiesler did not return telephone inquiries, and Mark Barnes, a Washington-based firearms lobbyist who provides regulatory counsel to Kiesler's police supply company, said he could not confirm Kiesler's involvement with the solicitation. He referred media questions to the CPA, but acknowledged that the contract was awarded competitively to an U.S. firm.

"An American company was required to provide goods and services, and an American company did," Barnes said. "It was appropriately awarded and appropriately filled."

In addition to the weapons contract, the CPA allegedly awarded a separate contract for 50,000 holsters designed for Glock handguns, according to U.S. industry sources. Tom Marx, law enforcement marketing manager at Uncle Mike's Holsters in Oregon City, Ore., confirmed that his company was involved with the contract, but said the award was actually handled by a U.S. wholesaler, and that the wholesaler was likely Kiesler.

Congressional aides familiar with the issue said the efforts to contact the CPA regarding the contract had proved difficult. One aide said the CPA's response to inquiries regarding the contract revealed that Iraqi funds, rather than U.S.-appropriated tax dollars, may have been used to pay for the handgun contract. Others observed that the CPA is under significant pressure to hastily equip new Iraqi military and police forces, a factor that could preclude its ability to rely solely on competitive procurement practices.

Nonetheless, these aides are still hoping to learn more about how Glock ended up with the CPA award, and are anxious to learn more about Kiesler's role in the deal. Earlier this week the CPA posted on its Web site a Dec. 5 decree from the Defense Department that some countries would be excluded from bidding on prime contracts in Iraq. Included was a list of countries deemed eligible to bid on the $18.6 billion in U.S-funded prime contracts for reconstruction projects in Iraq. Austria was not included on the list.

Thank you, I knew you'd see the light.

What puzzled Turkish police was the weapons? origin. Glocks are high-quality sidearms, but by last year they had practically become common street weapons in Turkey. More than 1,000 had been taken from criminals, guerrillas, terrorists and assassins all over the country, and authorities believed tens of thousands more had found their way onto the black market ? but from where? The Austrian government repeatedly checked the serial numbers of the murder weapons. The manufacturer informed Ankara that the pistols were consigned originally to ? ?US Mission Iraq? [formerly the Coalition Provisional Authority], address: Republican Presidential Compound, Ministry of the Interior, Baghdad, Iraq.?

But there were also signs of problems more serious than bad record-keeping. One of Petraeus?s subordinates, Col. Theodore Westhusing, had taken leave from his position as a professor of ethics at West Point to serve a six-month tour as commander of the unit training counterterrorism and Special Operations Forces. By the spring of 2005, Westhusing had grown increasingly concerned about the corruption he thought he saw in the program. He was especially upset after receiving an anonymous letter on May 19, 2005, which claimed there was outright fraud by government contractors. Among the alleged problems: failure to account for almost 200 guns.

Westhusing passed the letter up the chain of command. A few days later he wrote a formal memo saying he thought the charges were off-base. But at the same time his conversations and e-mails with his family members became cryptic and he seemed concerned for his safety. Colleagues said he looked exhausted and preoccupied. On June 5, 2005, Westhusing was found dead in his temporary quarters at Camp Dublin near Baghdad airport, apparently having shot himself with his own pistol. ?I cannot support a [mission] that leads to corruption, human rights abuses and liars,? he wrote in a note found near his body. ?Death before being dishonored any more. Trust is essential ? I don?t know who to trust anymore.?

Provided... Have you ever done so?

You are slowly coming around, I'm so proud of you!

If I ever have anything to do with the DNC I will. Did your fax from Rush and Rove tell you to say that?

Stuart

the US runs it foreign policy on "plausible denial" to keep dickwitts like doug and gunner happy

it means their politicians can train arm and fund al quieda , taliban , contra type folk folk , and still be seen to have clean hands from the nasty stuff they do

the weak minded yanks actually believe it when their keepers tell them "we had nothing to do with these terrorist groups"

when the same weak minded yanks funded the bastards from their own tax dollars since the word go

like you out of our country.

Thank goodness.

and another one down , another one bites the dust ...

you bastards keep shipping doccos about how you manage midle eastern terror groups and keep the US "out" of the picture while still providing training and arms , all over the world

and hate it when your bragging comes back to ya

another yank bites the dust

sticks his head deeply into the sand ...

Following a logical progression. However, I did like the free association protocol.

Yeah Colonel Oliver North was a secret Commie plot to make the yanks look bad :o),,I'm sure there must be few few americans with IQ's higher than that of a lettuce somewhere, but where ?

Dont worry my aboriginal friend, he only does what Americans always do when thing get tough, they run away, them going " plonk" is just them admitting they can not stand criticism and face adult bebate, Thats why the new american flag is going to be the back of a running chicken set on a yellow backround, there was going to be a list of great american victiories sewn down both sides but no one can remember them winning anything since 1776.

Gunner wont reply when you hit him with evidence, he lives in denial. ( he thinks denial is a river)

Actually, you seem to have that wrong. is "Wow, what an astonishing waste of time it is to try to have an interesting conversation with you. I think I'll just not bother; there's interesting people all over, and you're not one of them".

See what I mean? There's just nowhere worthwhile to go from something like _that_. You've killed the interest in the thread by being, well, yourself.

watching you get cranky about being called .. what you are ... is funny tho

Especially if you take it seriously, the yanks have really poor self effacing attitudes towards humour, Brits Aussies Canuc, Kiwis and especially South africans are wondefully adept at very very heavy piss taking while still standing alongside as allies, the yanks have some sort of misguided believe that they are above reproach and not liable to being wound up.

Yes. You need to explain what those feds action were to that other fellow who doesn't understand how FDR used the FED to keep the crisis going, and thus stay in power.

Keep in mind that the socialist crap that scared away investors actually started under Hoover (!), FDR ran on the platform of slandering Hoover with lies and promising even more socialist action.

Only when that socialist bastard FDR finally croaked (actually, a little afterwords because Eleanor committed fraud and faked his signature on some of the bills) did investors feel it was safe to put their money back into equities, and the depression ended. WW II did not end the depression, that is a myth. Because of the depression, WW II almost bankrupted the United States.

I think you need to explain what those feds action were (sic) to a lot of other fellows, because most people are likely to think you're full of crap.

In your own words, please, because you tend to quote people who actually contradict what you say.

-- Ed Huntress

Speculation is a pejorative term; do note that depositor expect banks to invest their money and provide a return for them. Nothing sinister about that.

It would make no difference if the item moving the wealth around were slips of paper or solid gold coin. The principle is the same.

You mean if there has been no banking, or money lenders, period.

If you want a fair system, you need to have barter, but barter doesn't work in civilized societies. Sorry, banking is a necessary evil.

Well, they're really good at it because they don't have much choice.

Impotent cuckolds, the embittered cynics of the failed British empire have no way to boost their sorry egos except to put other people down. And you are quite good at that, too. It's the one thing you have left to be proud of.

Since the Fed has a monolopy on the money supply, inflation rates show when the fed tightens the money supply and when it hands it out.