Hi all, I have a chester super 3 in 1 lathe, I`m having a problem with oil leaking from the head stock where the spindle comes out of it. ( front and back). I contacted chester today and was told to pack it with cardboard !!! the chap said it was`nt worth an engineers time to come out to it and anyway they did`nt have any seals. I mentioned about the guarantee, he said that I had only a few days left on it and there was`nt anything they could do. Does anyone know how to fix the problem ? Please take my advise and think twice before ever using this company. Regards Pete
As far as I can tell from what you say, as part of the purchase price of the package, you bought a guarantee that Chester will now not fulfil. Wether it has 5 days or 500 days left to run is irrelevant. Straight round to Trading Standards with you! All it takes is a phone call to them and in my experience they are quite quick to stamp on suppliers that do not meet their committments.
From personal experience Chester UK are a load of crap as regard aftersales service and I'm glad I sent my 626 mill back for a refund. would never buy anything from them again.
Alla
-- Allan Waterfal
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Setting aside the business practices of one particular importer of Chinese crap I think we're missing a point here, the fact that the oil seals have failed on a new lathe in less than a year only reinforces what total crap is being imported, and when you look at the prices what can you expect?.
Remember that thread about cheap digital callipers that flattened their batteries in a few weeks?, well I bough one from Proops a few weeks ago and knew exactly the score as everyone on their stand had a flat battery!, I weighed this up against the difference between £20 and £85 for a good brand and the fact that people sell batteries for a quid a sheet at markets and decided it was worth buying. I'm not now racing around to trading standards and claiming it should be as good as a Jap brand!.
In short, if you want quality that lasts you are free to pay for it, if you want to cut costs you are free to do so and why not but don't complain about the quality.
Duncan, I agree with you that if it is under warranty it should be returned to fit for purpose for the period (full period even the last few days) of the warranty. Despite Gregs' opinion that you get what you pay for it is an investment of over =A3700 and should remain serviceable for at least the warranty period.
However, one of the reasons I would not buy a machine from this particular organisation is their warranty statement on their web page under "Terms and Conditions" where it says "Goods supplied are guaranteed for a period of twelve (12) months from the date of delivery". After saying items must be returned to them at the customers expense it continues "Where Chester are required to send an engineer(s) to a customers premises then travelling and subsequent expenses shall be paid by the customer". Their last sentence is the killer for me "Chester accepts no liability for defects caused by the customer's installation, modification and operation." I would need to ask what they do accept responsibility for? Obviously I have no way of knowing if this was their warranty statement at the time of delivery but it is their current policy.
So if they were to abide by their warranty they could well send an engineer to fit a couple of 2p seals (if they bothered to stock them) and then present a hefty bill for "travelling and expenses". So their statement that it is not worth an engineer's time should be challenged as the customer is not expected to pay for that, but I would also want a clear statement of what their expenses are likely to be before I insisted on a visit.
As a comparison one of the other major importers of the same machine covers parts and labour for the first 6 months with the machine being returned and re-delivered at the importers cost or an engineer visiting the customers premises again at the importers cost. For the second six months parts are supplied free of charge and delivery paid for by the importer. Yes on average this organisation is slightly more expensive than Chester.
In my youth (long ago) I used to believe that traders needed to keep their reputation and they would do what was "right" by the customer. Whilst this seemed to hold true for many years I noticed a gradual change when people stopped selling what they had made themselves and started selling someone else's crap. I suppose it was about the time that we started to buy on price as the main criteria and in my experience poor quality is not unique to China, Taiwan, India or any other manufacturing area. It's usually down to the importer buying "cheap" and selling "dear". In my experience there are still a few traders who will "share" a little of this profit margin with their customers and try to ensure that the customer returns for another purchase. You have to look to find them. Have you tried to get a spare for that "special offer drill" that was bought from a major DIY chain a year or so ago?
I have never been a "man for detail" but in todays world I find it essential to read the small print before I part with my money, it might not give me any better protection but at least I know the risks. I find it difficult to understand how an organisation can prosper when it treats it's customers to such poor service, but then again I'm just old fashioned as my kids enjoy telling me. Sad world isn't it.
"Duncan, I agree with you that if it is under warranty it should be returned to fit for purpose for the period (full period even the last few days) of the warranty. Despite Gregs' opinion that you get what you pay for it is an investment of over £700 and should remain serviceable for at least the warranty period."
And how much would it have cost if built to a decent standard?, £1500 maybe?, as I said you get what you pay for.
"Where Chester are required to send an engineer(s) to a customers premises then travelling and subsequent expenses shall be paid by the customer"
Again what do you expect, they probably make £200 profit on that machine so how can you possibly expect them to include on-site service when it's not a legal requirement?. It would cost them hundreds to send someone half way up the country for a day to repair it. If you buy a telly from Currys do you get on-site servive?, the hell you do!, I've had to take a 28" telly back twice in the space of a week and believe me that's not easy.
Indeed, and he has a legal right to the goods being repaired...if of course he returns them to the supplier and collects them again after the repair!. That applies whatever you buy, the supplier is under no obligation to collect or repair on site.In this case common sense would dictate the supplier just posts a couple of seals do the owner can replace them.
But don't you think it is an attitudinal thing by the various companies in this market Greg?
Warco are importing the almost identical kit and selling in the same market at very similar prices, but they bend over backwards to help when things go awry. In the circle I frequent they have an excellent reputation but very few of the same crowd would go to Chester as their reputation is as demonstrated by the OP. That said there was a good follow up by someone from Chester regarding the wiring of a motor the other week on this newsgroup so they are not all bad !
And how much to ensure that the seals would last their warranty period
- perhaps another pound or so? It is Chester's warranty and therefore their responsibility to ensure the item is fit for purpose or repair it. They set the price and they write their warranty not the customer
I didn't say they needed to send an engineer to fix it, their own warranty mentions that. Therefore they give the impression to a customer that this could happen. The other importer I quoted was more honest about the equipment and just agrees to provide the parts free of charge after 6 months. I've just bought a major electrical item from Currys and chose to pay extra for machine where the manufacturer provided a 5 year on site warranty, my choice. I don't see Chester offering such an option.
After our last discussion Greg I just think that we see the world differently so I won't comment on this one any further.
I've also noticed that Chester now have a forum on their website, and it appears to be moderated by the same Gareth that Mark has referred to above. Perhaps it would be worth posting your experience there and see if they respond to it.
One must point out that the assorted Sale of goods and services acts indicate that a good should last for a time that would be reasonable for that class of equipment. Six years would be more reasonable than one year for a lathe, so their warrantee would be considered irrelevant by the Trading Standards office.
Contrarywise. An oil seal could, quite reasonably, be counted as a consumable and not be expected to be covered under the warrantee.
If it's the oil seal, live with it and get a better one for a fiver.
If it's the mandrel, get trading standards involved and start talking about a refund or replacement lathe.
In either case, possibly treat dealing with Chester as a mistake and don't make the same mistake again.
Some of you seem to be giving "Pete" a lot of stick over nothing, he has a machine which has a problem and under warranty he should expect it to be put right, don't knock him down because he has bought so called Chinese rubbish. We all buy what we can afford at the time, I for one own a Clarke CL500M and it suits me fine and if I am careful can produce work to the tolerances I require. The warranty is there for the customer protection whether it is a DS & G or Chester Lathe.
Mark, I would agree with your point in general but it is a bit of a grey area and would bring in Greg's point of acceptable performance against price. My point was that Chester had guaranteed it for a period of twelve months therefore they should do the minimum THEY said they would do and fix it or at the very least provide the parts. The fact that this guarantee, in my opinion, reduces what life any customer should expect from this class of equipment is more problematic to argue successfully, particularly as the customer purchased the machine under those terms and conditions. Although, developing your point further those terms could well be considered unreasonable in the case of this class of equipment. Trouble is with legal advice from =A3150 p/hr upwards we are not likely to find anyone willing to risk taking the point to court for a =A3700 machine.
Interesting point this one, I would agree as long as Chester in their servicing manual have identified the oil seal as an item that will require checking and replacing as necessary during servicing. I suppose a "check for oil leaks" line in the servicing schedule could be argued as identifying it as a possible consumable. It's interesting as the automotive industry goes to great lengths to reduce required service items for the fleet market and I can't remember a recent example of the
2p seal (provided free under parts warranty) costing =A3700 to replace. Although a friend of mine was moaning about the cost of replacing some transmission seals on his nearly new Landrover thingy. I do seem to remember it happening on a Japanese motorcycle of the 1980's. I'm getting old so it might have been longer ago than that.
I think that 12 months life for an unpressurised oil seal working at what 2000rpm at most is unacceptable. I would also want Chester to look at the spindle and bearings to see why the seal has failed after so short a service life. It might be that there are more expensive items on the way out.
Again, can't argue with this advice and if more customers raised their expectations and demanded reasonable service then companies who wished to sell us goods would be forced to up their performance. I for one would accept the slight increase in cost for reasonable (fair) aftersales service. I do have sympathy for the traders though and have seen some of the items returned by "honest" customers for replacement. Funny how it's always the last sweet in the box that's off!
Worth more than mine then Mark , my comments are based only on my opinion of what is fair and appropriate. My painful experience in life is that if we get legal minds involved it always costs me a LOT of money and I never understand the result.
Bit harsh on us Martin I think there is only one poster that took the "Chinese rubbish" line the rest of us thought that Pete should get what he paid for ie a working machine and a warranty that is honoured by the company selling it. I think this is one of the more enlightened forum as reqards balanced discussion re imported machines. They provide terrific value for money and are improving all the time. In my opinion they are responsible for the increasing number of people who have some sort of machine tool at there disposal and encourage many into the world of part time engineering either as an interest in it'self or as a way to support another interest. Long may it continue.
Does this oil leak prevent the lathe in any way from performing to it's capabilities or prevent it from being used?
I would presume to say no. It causes oil to drip on the bench. Messy, but not really a total failure to provide a tool that works as advertised.
That pretty much brings it in line with about every other lathe I have ever used, many of which were worth more than the Chester machine in question, and built by companies with more to lose, reputation wise.
The short answer from the company was that they did not have any seals and that they could not do anything about it. Seems a reasonable thing to say, really. Whether the subject of there only being a few days left on the warranty was just conversational aside to things, or if it was a statement of their stand on policy, I have to defer to the guy that was there.
If the owner of the machine in question is unwilling to send or take the entire machine back over this defect(which would seem to be within the realms of the possible, given the regulatory discussions), then the wise thing to do would be to look at the problem with an eye to a solution, rather than decrying the state of consumer protection schemes, or the failure to follow same, as I see it.
So...
Are there seals in place that are leaking? Is there provision of space in which seals could be fitted?
Seals are cheap! A bearing supply house or the like can provide, but will require inside, outside and thickness dimensions in millimeters, usually to the nearest half. An enterprising individual might even make arrangements to fit same.
The solution could be as simple as packing the space around the spindle ends with some string, and fashioning a retainer plate to fit over it. That would at least limit the rate of escape.
This is it, yes?
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Does the headstock contain a gearbox to drive the mill head or is it belt drive or shaft? If there is no gearbox (or if there is) is the oil level overfull? Has an internal drain channell become blocked? Has something loosened off that causes this leakage?
My Myford drips oil, my Centec drips oil, the CNC mill that I use at work drips lots of oil, as do the two Colchester's and the Schaublin lathe (also at work).
I see little worth complaining about over an oil leak, to tell the truth. if this has been happening over time, it's pretty much normal, and if it happened all of a sudden, it's a sign that something has come adrift or is awry, and may deserve a looking to.
I gotta agree that the chinese tools are a pretty good value for the money.
It's well worth the time it takes to look at the British or American made machines of a generation ago, that were built to fill the same niche in the ecology. Stuff like the Adept lathes or some like the AA lathes from the US.
Those were machines to test ones sense of humor and imagination, not to mention dedication. I look at those machines, and read of guys that had them as first lathes, and am awestruck that they did not take up other hobbies.:-)
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