Loosing 17KW

No I'm not an electrician but do all my own work on machine tools. Frankly I'm not interested in what you have to spout as the reg's are always changing. All my house wiring was done to an older spec than at present. I have no intention of selling so certificates don't apply and when I do, what you are now spouting won't apply either as being superceded so we will have to worry about that at the time.

My workshop is totally exempt from any reg's relating to this rule at this time and at time of sale probably won't apply either as it will pay to pull it down and build houses on it.

In fact in 20 years time I could probably get more for the house and workshop land than selling as it stands now so stuff your bloody certificate.

-- Regards,

John Stevenson Nottingham, England.

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Peter,

I think a lot of these new regs are more to do with the Black Economy to try and prevent electricians working for cash in the hand. With the recent change in the colour coding of electric cable all new work will be obvious, when you come to sell your house any new buy will know that alterations have been made and will require a certificate of conformity. I guess issuing these certificates will be traceable like MOT certificates, it will become difficult if not impossible for electricians to work for cash.

Am I correct that originally colours were Live - Red Neutral - Black Earth Green

The it went to

Live - Brown Neutral - Blue Earth Yellow/Green

And now back to

Live - Brown Neutral - Black Earth - Green

Seems to me to be EEC attempts to shrink the Black Economy, supported by big companies who will benefit from less self employed workers.

Lionel

cooling

Ducan,

You are on - send me a suitable storage box and I'll pack it up and post it to you

AWEM

Yes, but we are expected to effectively self-certificate our own equipment, which runs at far more lethal voltages and powers than a domestic supply, yet we cannot seemingly fit a new wall socket.

I can see the requirement for something to protect folks against cowboy contractors, especially those that can't change a fuse, but it seems to me that this is a step over the top in the wrong direction.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:

plenty of them

John,

Yes the developer knocks I reckon they will want to put a block of

12 or 14 flats on my place - sad to see the Edwardian piles get knocked down but it's happening rather fast round here - we'll be a rarity soon.

AWEM

Economy to try and prevent electricians working for cash

new work will be obvious, when you come to sell your

require a certificate of conformity.

certificates, it will become difficult if not impossible

supported by big companies who will benefit from less self

And it could be the reason that stocks of old colour cables fetch good prices on eBay !

AWEM

You do have conservative developers around you. Our local Rachman has been trying to build on the local flood plain for years. Finally by installing a 12" drain to divert the River Trent plus a few holidays in Spain and probably a couple of new council employee cars he's managed it. Ironically he doesn't live in one.

I'm sure if he bought our place he could get about 20 flats on, all with cellars and roof gardens.

-- Regards,

John Stevenson Nottingham, England.

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That means it's either a business, in which case you're covered by the factories act which is worse!, or it has it's own dedicated supply which is totally separate from any domestic one.

It isn't MY bloody certificate, it's your elected government who has imposed this, you really do believe in shooting the messenger don't you.

Greg

try and prevent electricians working for cash

will be obvious, when you come to sell your

require a certificate of conformity.

certificates, it will become difficult if not impossible

Yes that's very true, every notifiable job has to have a certificate lodged with the local Building Regulatory Department of you council and these will appear in the search that a solicitor does for a conveyance.

Isn't it interesting that none of those here claiming to be able to do their own wiring have corrected you on this!, the present colours are:

For single phase Brown - Phase Blue - Neutral Yellow/Green -Earth

and for three phase Brown - Phase 1 Black - Phase 2 Grey - Phase 3 Blue - Neutral Yellow/Green -Earth

Until recently single phase flex followed this but everything else was:

For single phase Red - Phase Black - Neutral Yellow/Green -Earth

and for three phase Red - Phase 1 Yellow - Phase 2 Blue - Phase 3 Black - Neutral Yellow/Green -Earth

Greg

Regarding the colours what I was getting at - or should have asked is -

I thought the present colours have gone back to the same colours that were used back in the 1950s or 60s.

So why so many changes only to revert back to old colour coding, if not just for the purpose of catching people out and indicating additional work done.

On the other hand I could be mistaken about this.

Lionel

"Greg" said

Is that a very 'telling' statement?

You do know the difference between 'flex' and 'cable' surely?

The discussion (whilst originally on losing energy) is about the current regulations involving [Cabling] and your previously pedantic ranting is seriously compromised by this error.

Since you referred (incorrectly) to 'flex', I'm surprised that you have not extended the issue by detailing all the changes including those to the two-way lighting cable and the stupidity of the Politically Correct lobby in trying to remove the 'discrimination' against those with colour blindness for seeking work in the industry!

JG

try and prevent electricians working for cash

will be obvious, when you come to sell your

require a certificate of conformity.

certificates, it will become difficult if not impossible

Yes that's very true, every notifiable job has to have a certificat lodged with the local Building Regulatory Department of you council and thes will appear in the search that a solicitor does for a conveyance.

Isn't it interesting that none of those here claiming to be able to d their own wiring have corrected you on this!, the present colours are:

For single phase Brown - Phase Blue - Neutral Yellow/Green -Earth

and for three phase Brown - Phase 1 Black - Phase 2 Grey - Phase 3 Blue - Neutral Yellow/Green -Earth

Until recently single phase flex followed this but everything els was:

For single phase Red - Phase Black - Neutral Yellow/Green -Earth

and for three phase Red - Phase 1 Yellow - Phase 2 Blue - Phase 3 Black - Neutral Yellow/Green -Earth

Greg

Im still wainting for a big three phase bang from someone wiring phase to a neutral...

of course if all the work is done before the regs changed its no notifyable... love to know how they prove it wasnt...

dav

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back in the 1950s or 60s.

for the purpose of catching people out and

Single phase flex used to be red, black, green (I still use a couple of Solon soldering irons with these colours). Probably before Greg's time, though

but prior to that the flex colours were something closer to the new colours. I do remember a couple of appliances in use within the family with these old colours, which I think were similar to (present day?) US colours but can't remember precisely what they were. Maybe Earth was Brown, ISTR some sort of potentially fatal mismatch! Single phase fixed wiring has been red/black for as long as I can remember, I think even the old lead sheathed cable used red & black. As far as I am aware the yellow/green earth sleeving is a fairly recent innovation, though green was probably the norm if any earth sleeve was used.

Cheers Tim

Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service

used back in the 1950s or 60s.

to be honest I wasn't around then 8-) so i would have to do some research.

just for the purpose of catching people out and

Actually it's all about standardising with Europe, we went part of the way when flex was 'harmonised' a few years ago and have now gone the whole hog. The same is true of changing from 240/415V to 230/400V.

Greg

What about the swap in between these to all black with coloured tails?

This is one move I never understood. To swop colour's to something not used before is one thing but to then swap two phase over, black and blue from phase to neutral and visa versa is more dangerous that anything I have come across.

One company I know had a well know electrical contractors drop a phase onto neutral and fry about 25K's worth of computers, phones faxes etc.

Even worse same company had to have a new 600 amp supply run about 3/4 of a mile as there wasn't enough power on their industrial estate for the new laser cutter they had bought. Lecky board were contracted to do the main work. Contractors dug the road up. Two gangs of lecky men did the rest. One gang fit the new dizzy board and tails, one gang connected to the Nottingham ring road main.

Did you know it's perfectly possible to blow a dizzy box off the wall, still connected to 4 breeze blocks and stud anchors, throw it 20 feet across a crowded workshop and decimate a £400K laser's control panel.

And set fire to at least 4 city and guilds. Don't worry you say the system covers it all. Try telling this company that when the lecky board INSISTED it wasn't their fault.

-- Regards,

John Stevenson Nottingham, England.

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No read the exemption lists. And in my shop red, yellow, blue, black rules and will do until I shut shop [ sound like a ripe raspberry echoing off the walls ]

No matter what colour's are used it needs and is safe.

True, I have two supplies.

Yup.

-- Regards,

John Stevenson Nottingham, England.

Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:-

Yes, but appafrently you don't, the regs refer to "flexible cord" or "flexible cable" which I simply shortened to flex, oh what a terrible thing to do, almost as bad as refering to the "regs" instead of "Requirements for electrical installations"

Oh and the Code of Practice for In-Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment, otherwise know (totally incorrectly I hasten to add!) as the PAT testing regs, specifically uses the term "flex" in several places so somehow I don't think it should become the 8th deadly sin!

Greg

used back in the 1950s or 60s.

for the purpose of catching people out and

I can remember the old flex having a soft rubber sleeving and you could strip the wires with your teeth when fitting a plug.

Forgot about the lead cable, remember pulling that out in the past and selling to the rag and bone man. All fixed with steel nails that had lead hooks on.

Have an old brass fan in the loft from the 40's with the old cotton covered purple cable, been passed down the family a few generations, seem to remember it was stored away years ago as I think it was double cable with no earth!

Original thread well off topic now!

Lionel

Classic "Two Jags" bollocks, aka the pantomime horse at it again. Did you know he plans to use Google Earth to find conservatories lacking consent?

Fantastic.