I believe CAR has a policy about not handling certifications for manufacturers in geographical areas where there is already a local certifying organization. It appears that CAR agreeing to this was a significant "deal-enabler" with respect to the eventual "reciprocal agreement"... one can suspect that the American associations were more comfortable with it once it was established that it wouldn't expose them to having to let Jerry motors into their launches after all (if CAR were to certify them).
They have a mandatory LEMP rule and I cannot in good conscience comply with a rule I know to be illegal. Also NAR has been informed by ATF (a legal police order) to not enforce for them, yet they still do - and sue the ATF too. I do NOT want to KNOWINGLY violate a police order. I have no idea what the penalty is for that, but I don't want to find out, as the industry's official crash test dummy.
I believe there was a lot of discussion on line here... I don't remember the actual messages, but I believe it was mentioned that TRA wanted this condition.
I have never claimed that TRA was solely to blame. In fact, I am not really looking to place blame at all. Plenty of that to go around. What I do complain about is current motor certification procedures as established by both of these orgs. It has run amok in both, especially in light of the AeroTech disaster, and the related reactions. Dealer prime #1 went to crap for 2 years, and has not yet recovered appreciably. NAR has less fear, for they are solidly based in the lower and more plentiful classes. TRA, however, will exist in a pale wisp of essence of it's former glory, or cease to exist at all, if the problems with motors are not remedied. I submit a plea, not a blame, to correct the situation. We discuss why it is a problem, and how it is a problem, and are forced to defend that view with what we know of the past and present. But the end goal (at least for me) is not head-hunting; it is salvation of this end of the hobby. Any form of existence that is not growth is decline. Why even have TRA if high power is effectually relegated to the rich? Will they end up regulating themselves into EX only? Motors above "E" class must be brought into the "common man's marketplace", or the hobby will suffer terrible losses.
Yes, but let's _focus_ on the main organization touted to promote higher power rocketry. In this matter it is principly unique to the common man.
More defense of hobby freedom, and helping government to understand the safety of the hobby, and less pacification of those who fear by banishing those freedoms.
Any form of existence that is not growth is decline. Why even have TRA if high power is effectually relegated to the rich? Will they end up regulating themselves into EX only? Motors above "E" class must be brought into the "common man's marketplace", or the hobby will suffer terrible losses.
and... More defense of hobby freedom, and helping government to understand the safety of the hobby, and less pacification of those who fear by banishing those freedoms.
~ Duane Phillips.
What the hell is this crap? Did you have a bad dream? Has Ben Franklin been reincarnated? Are you possessed by that dead guy with wooden teeth or sumpthin'?
Unfortunately the outlook for increasing production of mid-power (E-G) motors is not good, regardless of any issues with the motor cert process. As Mr. Cesaroni pointed out recently, liability concerns are a HUGE obstacle for new motors in sizes available to the general public.
I found that interesting - that the insurance he has for making HPR and larger motors wouldn't cover the smaller, "safer" stuff, but I guess the big stuff could be considered to be more of an "industrial/specialty" product that wouldn't be subject to quite the same exposure to "consumer product liability" claims as a "consumer-market recreational product" might be.
I thought this thread was about why Jerry's motors aren't certified?
It's definitely looking like you are on a TRA witchhunt. I asked, for this particular thread, to assume TRA is the evil empire and then why the NAR won't certify Jerry's motors. But you ignore any discussion of the NAR and keep poking that TRA button.
Since either could certify the motors, and ONLY TRA could "recertify" as I was so silly as to strongly support mostly TRA in the past, TRA is the central focus. It also has more irregularities in need of correction.
NAR is at least on some level "trying" albiet on a glacially slow and truly ineffective basis.
I seem to recall (a year or two ago?) a thread about how Jerry had 'recently' sent motors to NAR for certification, and they had promptly called the authorities and claimed 'improper shipping'. I didn't like it at the time (though I obviously only had the details presented here on rmr), but frankly, if it's anything like the 'claimed' illegal shipment in the TRA photos/letters, then it was exactly the same kind of example, and NAR DID set up roadblocks for Jerry. Given that, it doesn't surprise me that he views further submittals to NAR as pointless. BTW, I don't believe it was just Jerry posting about that transaction, I think Mark Bundick even posted about it. It was, frankly, another example of a hobby organization attempting to act as an enforcement agency--and I would again point out that IF IN FACT Jerry had violated the mail laws regarding that shipment, especially post
9-11, he would be in jail right now.
Here's how I saw that particular scenario: NAR has 'one interpretation' of the shipping laws, and Jerry has 'another interpretation' of the shipping laws. They both revolve around how the material is classified, whether or not APCP is 'explosive', etc. Interestingly enough, this is exactly what the lawsuit is about. In this case, though, we have two non-government entities that were attempting to 'interpret' the laws. What happened from MY perspective (in that specific instance) is that NAR actually DID invite external government scrutiny into the transaction, where it was neither desired nor necessary. If, in fact, it had been found to be problematic, then it would have been Jerry's problem as the shipper. NAR is certainly free to ship in whatever fashion their 'interpretation' leads to, but the transaction that I remember had the distinctive flavor of a 'sting' (or attempted 'sting').
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