Arizona Rocket Gathering

Nor do they support commercial motors you CAN buy, but are made by or for persona nongratta.

Thanks for the summary.

Too bad he ran out of customers willing to go along with the madness.

Darwinism is good.

I assume this means you'll be doing EX motors. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm curious -- don't you have anyone in the club with a LEUP who could buy larger motors from an off-site vendor?

Why do you further the madness knowing it is not needed Ray?

Two guesses as to the owner of the magazine everyone was using as storage.

Joel. phx

If you cannot legally buy commercially manufacturered HPR motors, you cannot legally make your own. LEUP required in either case once you produce and store an HRP motor.

The NAR does not include experimental/amateur motors under the scope of the organization, but many people who happen to be NAR members support this activity outside of the venue of insured NAR launches.

-John

It appears that Joel prefers complaining instead of finding a working solution to his problem. Many people are enjoying HPR without an LEUP, as long as they have friends, and one of those friends has storage.

Expect a reply with an argument full of FUD, NAR bashing, and general guv'ment paranoia to follow. ;)

-John

And there is yet another far larger segment with no storage, or concept of it, permit, or concept of it, that are fully legal. Because propellant actuated devices are EXEMPT.

The number of people in the first segment have declined 80% and in the second segment 0%.

Commercial motors are available, from several manufacturers, from many dealers all over the country. If one particular dealer has decided not to continue selling HPR motors, for whatever perceived change in risk, that does not mean someone cannot legally buy them. If they are blaming HSA/SEA/BATFE for getting out of selling HPR motors, this hasn't affected other dealers who have always held a LEDP and have always sold to holders of LEUPs. Sounds like someone could make a good buck in the Phoenix area starting up a new HPR dealership.

-John

According to what law?

Remember, you were the accuser that FUD was happening. Prove you are not the source.

Based on what? Commercial is different than 'own use'. Check out the fireworks guys. They have letters from the BATF regarding commercial purchased fireworks versus owner made for non-commercial use.

Just because commercial purchase requires it does not mean you can assume homemade requires it.

Joel. phx

But those mentally retarded people who have always sold exempt motors with a LEUP are the CAUSE OF THE CONFUSION, THE PROBLEM, AND THE FUD, and by reference the lawsuit.

Jerry

No, it is possible (in our case) to purchase mail order and/or from other launch sites dealers. However, you must be able to store the material and if you're crossing state lines to purchase,...

Joel. phx

I figured you'd pop up. So I can launch rockets without motors and storage?

Didn't think so.

As I replied before, when everyone's storage is in one basket, and the basket goes away, HPR flying goes away. The LEUP holders that I talked to had arranged storage with that one magaine.

I forgot, it's as simple as applying for an LEUP (is that free?) and buying a magazine (suppose I could build one) and renting land to store it on (insurance), then interview and inspection. Lots of fud there folks.

Or I can pursue the interesting activity of EX with another organization without the crap.

Joel. phx

There's your fud, and name calling.

Ah, I see. The vendor was also the only one with storage. That does make it tough.

That depends on the propellent, and on whether ATF decides to go after users of ANCP they way they've been going after APCP.

Of course, raw materials are unregulated so lack of a LEUP is no barrier to actually making your own motors regardless of propellent type or legality. That's one of the many reasons why ATF regulation of rocket motors is so intensely stupid -- it can't possibly prevent a determined individual from obtaining rocket motors.

Approved storage is still required. Read the orange book. 55.29.

And if you're using BP for ejection, you'll need a LEUP.

Or, as with commercial HPR, you can find a friend with a LEUP and storage to help you store and transport your EX loads and BP.

-John

Are you volunteering, John?

I think it is as easy to interpret the (unlawful) ATFE explosives to include anything they so desire.

Depends on local laws. Then there is the fact that once they ARE a motor, they require storage. And don't ignore the issue of BP for ejection charges.

Determinined individuals (ie: criminals) are seldom stopped by regulations.

-John