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ATFE Test Results At Hill AFB Reported

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sez, among other things:

targets on the ground. They will claim that these rockets could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons against ground targets such as the Capital Mall area in Washington, D.C.

Note that slingshots, catapults, trebuchets, crossbows, hand launched gliders, balloons, model airplanes, etc. etc. etc. can also be used to do the same. An RC powered airplane is a far better delivery vehicle.

is assumed that APCP grains were put inside a sealed, cast iron pipe and ignited. The over pressurization of the pipe caused it to fragment, which sent pieces flying through the air.

Note that matchheads can also be used to do the same.

were provided on this as APCP used by the hobby does not detonate. Detonation is usually used to initiate another explosive. It is possible the APCP was ignited, which in turn ignited a high explosive that then detonated.

This one needs further explanation. Many high explosives will burn without detonating. As APCP cannot be used to generate a supersonic shock wave, I can't imagine how they managed to "demonstrate" this. Be that as it may, given that someone is already able to obtain high explosives, why would they bother using hobby rocket APCP as a detonator?

I wonder what this project cost the taxpayers.

len.

Reply to
Leonard Fehskens
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Someone somewere, got somebody's goat,

Reply to
almax

As can dry ice or liquid nitrogen or even water. Steam boiler explosions caused many fatalities and injuries at one time before the development of the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel code. One can also design a case to not fragment, or to fail in a safe manner - such as using a rupture disk.

I have been told that the political environment in Washington places a huge emphasis on not being wrong. People will go to great lengths to avoid the loss of political capital that comes with having to admit that they are actually "wrong" about something. It's ridiculous, but it sure explains alot of decisions. So (speculation mode on) they probably just lit a piece of APCP that was in contact with a block of a high explosive that is well known to support an unconfined deflagration-to-detonation transition. Of course one could have just ignited the HE directly to obtain the same effect.

They wouldn't, but ATF wasn't wrong and has the test data to prove it.

Too much.

Brad Hitch

Reply to
Brad Hitch

So can a trebouchet. They oughta be illegal. Damn commies and their French weapons of mass destruction!

So can gasoline, but I'll bet ol' George puts a halt to regulation of that little number real quick!

Oil-soaked rags can, too. In combination with #2 it's called a Molotov Cocktail.

Well, heck, I do declare that I feel safer already what with all this dangerous stuff regulated and controlled by the gov'ment. What was folks thinkin', playing with all this here terrorist threats all these years? And bringin' their youngin's up with it, too. Darn commies! Thanks, George and John, for makin' this here ol' country safer fer me 'n mine!

C program run. C program crash. C programmer quit.

Reply to
Msherck

Too much.

Reply to
RayDunakin

Oh I get it!

See, you run this couple hundred yard long steel cable from an anchor point to another anchor point just behind a big ol' block of HE. Then you launch an APCP powered line rocket which reaches hypersonic speed and impacts the HE creating enough of a shock wave to detonate it.

Sounds like the kind of thing terrorists would do to me........so much easier than simply using a detonator bought on the black market...

But then I can think of other ways terrorists might use hobby rocket APCP to detonate HE. All of which would make Rube Goldberg proud.

+McG+
Reply to
Kenneth C. McGoffin

Interesting. We told them years ago that you couldn't shoot down an aircraft with a hobby rocket motor. Burn a van, yes...

It is NOT the job of the BATFE to regulate devices that can be used to deliver warheads. otherwise they'd have to regulate every commercial aircraft, Ryder truck, panel van, and shipping box in the country.

It is NOT the job of the BATFE to regulate devices that can be used to make a bomb. It is their mandate to regulate materials whose primary intent or purpose is to explode. Otherwise they'd have to regulate gasoline, wheat, sawdust, magnesium, and cast iron pipe.

It is NOT the job of the BATFE to regulate devices that can be used to ignite explosive materials. Otherwise they'd have to regulate matches, light bulbs, and certainly ESTES ROCKET MOTORS.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

Since it was all done by a bunch of 16 year old kids, they can write it up and enter it all as an R&D project at NARAM, and try to win $1000 of Bob Alway's cash.

That should make a nice dent in the national debt :-(

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

I visit the ATF website every so often to watch them struggle with Mission statements and purposes in the post Homeland Security era. Its kind of amusing. Every once in a while, you find something interesting.

An interesting read, if you're into this kind of stuff, is on the ATF Explosives Study Group site. The actual document is off-site, so I'm providing the "official" ATF page which links to it:

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Under "OTHER PUBLICATIONS", click on the long link starting with, "Containing the Threat From Illegal Bombings..."

If you want to skip the ATF site (cite?), the actual report is at:

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Chapter 5 applies to explosives control and regulation. Its dated 1998, be aware of that.

Reply to
Gary

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