What to get Frank Kosdon for Christmas (serious)
Well, Irvine, that's quite a piece of work. You're quite a piece as well.
-I honestly don't care if you can make motors (many people can, now).
-I don't care if TRA/NAR doesn't want you in their organizations ( Intelligent people have other aspirations), or that these organization's leaderships are populated by crooks and liars.
-I don't care about any of the many people that you have ripped off in the past.
-I don't care that you choose to show up at Frank's launches and 'play friends' with him.
-I don't care what chemical imbalance in your brain causes your sociopathic behaviour, or what family member molested you to turn your brain to mush.
-I don't care that this message constitutes your idea of a good start to Christmas Eve.
I -do- care about what you choose to say about my good friend Frank Kosdon in a public forum, when said statement is faxed to him to start
-his- morning. All in good fun, until you get to #7. So, you (seriously) wish Frank a new heart attack, huh? That's 'Christmas Cheer' to you, eh? Under what heading shall I 'excuse' that comment, Irvine, the 'Insane' column or just the 'Still owes Frank 40K from the judgement' column?....... Perhaps it should go in the 'I told you so' column.
You're just a joke, Irvine. Plain and simple, a stupid man with nothing to offer - a pathetic, weak joke.
-Dave Triano
P.S. From Frank: -Fuck You, Asshole-
Jerry Irv>What to get Frank Kosdon for Christmas (serious)
Um, uh, he LIKES Arby's. As do I.
I do not know why you got up on the wrong side of the Christmas Tree, but let's face it. Everything on the list he would actually appreciate.
INCLUDING the very thing that contributed (barely if at all) to his first heart attack. 50 years of eating meat. I suspect since he has another 30+ to go till a second one builds up, he could probably survive a $20 Arby's coupon or 10.
Fax him that. It is my reply.
And for you folks who buy Franks motors or just like him, send him a token Christmas gift. He could use the good cheer with freinds like Dave Triano in tow.
Jerry
Frank and I have put our differences behind us. Maybe as a third party it is time for you to do the same.
Frank is the one who asked me to post the message, you irrelevant jerk.
You have -not- put the past behind you, and he wants nothing more to do with you. You seem to enjoy 'playing nice' and then stabbing Frank in the back online, as a proper sociopath would. Play with somebody else, Irvine. Must be lonely, putting in the 16 or so hours a day that you must devote to online responses, you pathetic little man.
Just think, I had never said one bad thing about you until you posted that despicable remark.........and then tried to justify it. I have just quietly accumulated -far- too much bad info about you over the years. You're a piece of crap in my book, pal, but I'll pray that your Christmas is more enlightening than the one you wish for Frank.
-Dave Triano
What to get Zak Orion for Christmas (serious)
So much for Christmas cheer at the Triano house, eh?
And he is spreading the cheer to the Kosdon house too? What a guy. No wonder Frank is paranoid. He has the ear of Triano.
The typical poster here on rmr knows I have generally been saying things re Kosdon that he himself would be pleased as punch to hear.
To ignore that is to defraudulate-tm.
Jerry
Fax that!
What to get Frank Kosdon for Christmas (serious, amended with troll-guard-tm)
Jerry even from you this is BS.... (And those leaves allot of leeway). This post is reminiscent of a year or so ago when you were bashing a rocketeer that had recently passed away. I do believe that you must have been molested (or were the molester) as a child to put you on such an evil course. I for one don't give a crap about your whining and sniveling about how you are persecuted...you deserve it. Hell if I was the man in charge I would punch your ticket ASAP..... You may have something to offer Irvine but for the life of me I cant see how any input you might have, would be worth overlooking your behavior. You obviously are a step down the foodchain...
Blow it out your ass!!!!!! and a very unmerry Xmas to you, pinhead
This from a guy who specializes in shitty rockets!
And never has a kind word on ROL chat.
You sir area trouble maker.
Whatever you say has been taken with a Morton factory FULL of salt.
Jerry
While Jerry may in fact be psycho, this was a great post. The folks who blew up behind it may need to go see a shrink, seriously.
There are very few people out there who have never heard, or referred to fast food with a phrase to the effect of "a heart attack in a box(or bag) mmmmm", then they proceed to eat the whole thing down with haste.
How about Jerry send the stuff on the list to me, but replace #4(unless it was full of money) with a 12 ton shop press, #5 with a 50lb box of kclo4, and #6 with a 50lb box of nh4clo4.
I don't really like much from Arby's except the potato cakes, but I could buy a ton of them with 20 bucks, so that works.
Pax
Montana Roast Beef sandwich with potato cakes........mmmmmmm.
-- Joe Michel NAR 82797 L1
I second that emotion. There have been plenty of times I've seen Jerry go nuts over something, but I sure didn't see this as one of those times. Further, I saw his #7 suggestion as the type of 'dark humor' that one does, indeed, give forth to friends/acquaintainces (sort of like saying "break a leg" to an actor). And as someone who had a heart attack myself about 14 months ago, I certainly wouldn't/haven't/won't take offense at something that certainly appeared to be a wish for good things for Frank Kosdon.
I'd also like to add that I contacted Jerry off-list (some days ago, before this 'episode'), because I was curious as to his relationship with Frank at present, and he said absolutely nothing negative about Frank, and was very much talking in a 'water under the bridge' mentality. I took it as read, and would point out that a) I initiated the contact, not Jerry, b) he had no reason to lie to me, because the point was peripheral to the main question I asked him, and c) as far as he knew, the message was entirely confidentional (I told him the message would remain completely private, but in light of his post here I specifically asked permission to discuss this part of it--I take such promises of confidentiality seriously). (additional disclaimer: I don't know either Frank or Jerry, other than from on rmr, and they don't know me--this is solely based on interactions here, and in very few private emails).
Honestly, it seems as though the Frank/Jerry relationship was the basis for the screenplay "Grumpy Old Men", but I truly don't think that in the above list Jerry was REALLY wishing a heart attack on Frank Kosdon.
David Erbas-White
useful observations, David. Thank you for posting
there is an anti-Jerry bias among certain individuals, for presumably historical reasons. Be that as it may, I not having known Jerry before last Feb, and knowing of him what I do by observation and some out-of-band contacts, take Jerry at face value
I believe an objective person would acknowledge that many of Jerry's contributions have considerable merit. His idiosyncracies are "Just Jerry", and my life experience has enabled me to look past the superficial appearances and see through to the person inside
I am convinced that Mr. Irvine intends no harm to anyone, even the worst of those perpetrating injustices against rocketry in general and him in particular. I believe that he has understandable issues with the conduct of those people, especially when the conduct is pathological. In the worst cases, this has been directed at individuals who have severely undermined our position as law-abiding practitioners of an educational hobby, and in these I share Jerry's sentiment.
It would be welcome, I think, if Bruce Kelly and Chuck Rogers could "get religion", repent their past and "sin no more". But given the wilfulness of those transgressions IMO they would have to establish a credibility starting from [less than] none, and "confession" would go a long way in that regard.
in any case, anyone who categorically rejects or attacks every coment that Jerry makes is doing themselves and us a disservice. I invite them to to swear-off, or at least mute their anti-Jerry bias and evaluate the merit of each comment individually.
we are not in a position to shun any talent if we are to survive
- iz
David Erbas-White wrote:
But Iz, you didn't answer the only question which came to mind here.......what the hell is a potato cake (or potatoe cake for you Dan ;-) )?
Thank you and I concur. I bet Dave Triano does NOT fax that to Frank. He seems to have some objection to our not being at war.
In fact EVERYBODY fax Frank this along with your own comments to his regular number.
Send him something on the list, starting with #1. He futzes with igniters all day at launches and never launches anything. He would be less grumpy if he lauched stuff.
Merry Jerry
WOW. This should be in the FAQ.
In fact, someone else faxed it to Frank, along with all of the other responses in this thread.
Having never met me or dealt with me in any way, Jerry, you have no idea where I am coming from, as I do not leave a trail of broken deals and ex-friends behind me like you do (and it's quite easy to read where you have been, and are most likely bound for). Frank and I are friends and business partners, and the difference between me and you is that I have never stolen anything from Frank and will never do so, I don't owe him
40K+ in a final lawsuit judgement, and I actually have a solid knowledge of modern, applicable technology that you can't even imagine, and I actually care about Frank's health. Your big model rocket tech may appeal to some people, but it is of no need to most anyone once they start down a serious road to knowledge in rocketry. You're just a 'Cliff Clavin' type, with info gleaned from just 'being around' the hobby for longer than most, from the postings that I have seen from you over the years, and discussions with those who have dealt with you.Funny, a couple of years ago when I was posting on my thoughts about TRA/NAR, Kelly. Bundick, et al, Jerry referred to me as 'The Man', and couldn't rave enough about my spot-on judgement regarding these topics. A search of the archives should bear that out. My thought processes and reasoning get sharper as the years go by.... and the hobby end of this, dominated by you and 'psuedo-laws' set up by TRA/NAR to kick -you- out of the hobby (yes, I know that, as should anyone with a brain that looks at the big picture), are just plain boring dead ends that don't deserve a minute of my or Frank's time.
Anyways, here's Frank's message that -HE- has asked me to post as a final reply to you, Jerry (I always get caught posting for Frank, as he doesn't own a computer. For all who are bored/irritated with this process, you'll be thrilled to know that there will be no more. I just hate wasting time on someone so inconsequential as JI, and so does Frank, now), and to those who think they have a good read on what/who you are. Enjoy, with apologies to those who may be offended by Frank's or my words:
Gather my Fathers Gather my sons Your coupons, and be off to Arby's for some fun.
Some people worry about cholesterol from the beef and cheese, but we know the danger is, no tease, from the contraction of Mad Jerry Disease!
Typically Jerry, make the disgusting comment, the "What, Me Worry?" and blame it on my good friend Dave, who of course, along with me, 'misinterpreted' the whole thing....... Well, for the people out there who don't have better things to do with your lives than to read this crap, you don't know how lucky you are that you don't have to live within 100 miles of Irvine like I do. All you have to suffer are the cute sociopathic utterances of his on the internet, the utterances of one who literally has nothing better to do with his life. To all who thought Irvine was comedic, including you Mr, Paxton (whoever you are.....), go f**k yourself and hope the big heart attack is not in your future,
Decertifyingly yours, Dr. Franklin Kosdon
Jerry Irv>>
--- snip catfight ---
Hey Dave - I've flown a rocket built with epoxy I got from you, powered by a motor I got from Jerry. (Satisfied customer on both counts, FWIW.)
If anything ever could, I consider this puts me in some sort of position to say to both of you, "Hey, come on you guys, peace already!"
-dave w
Hi Dave-
Fair Enough.
On the rare times when I check in on this newsgroup, I have enjoyed your objective and well-researched postings, especially as you are one of the only people I know who has taken the time to understand how to operate under CA Fire Marshall processes, such as Rocket 2 that Frank is licensed as. I simply do not stomach when someone wishes my friend a second heart attack, -especially JI-. It's not funny, it's never appropriate, and I do not accept that 'no ill will' is intended with a pathetic remark like that. And neither does Frank. Period.
Best in the New Year - Dave Triano
David We>Dave Triano wrote:
I have a "perfect" idea. I read your emotionally charged and accusational reply which missed the very point everyone else seemed to get.
I understand perfectly sir.
Being screwed and making good anyway is hardly "broken deals".
Name 2!
In what sense? What business?
Because if this is the sort of partner he associates with I may withdraw my offer to invite him to large group launches I HOST to offer motors. I get nothing from it and if I do get a black eye in the process, it is beyond "no win".
Bullshit.
Context sensitive of course. Did you infer that as a general permanant condition?
They were and are obvious to the casual observer.
They were and are obvious to the casual observer.
Since Frank has a TRACK RECORD of choosing the path of SCORCHED EARTH (making sure everyone loses as badly as he manages to), I will take this as exactly what I presumed above UNLESS Frank himself says otrherwise.
He has not done one single thing he has said he would do (with me) the entire time I have known him. Whether it was investing $5000 in Powertech (he invested $3311 in 3 times the time period he promised to deliver $5000, and kept the stuff he invested in and more) or whether it be delivering paper tubes more recently. He just owns no round tuits, and then blames others when things are not up to his expectations, then sues (4 times in my case) with his obviously superior budget and allegedly superior lawyers. But know this. I do NOT owe him $40k and he in no way ever did as he promised then or now, and any peace offerings I make are magnanimous ones IMHO and if they are not taken and RECEIVED in that spirit I know full well what to do next.
Jerry
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