E9-0

Yeah I know one is not to mess with motors but is it possible to twist out a plug in an E9-P to make an E9-0 booster? A D12-0 and C6-7 combo
doesn't stick my Quest Zenith II out of sight long enough. (I made my own first stage to use an E but found out later only a D is available.) Works fine with a spacer. Get over 2300 feet and use a streamer for recovery. Just did a flight this morning.
Kurt Savegnago
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kurt:
here a suggestion: do this at your own risk of course:
I would take another E9-P motor and split it down it length so that I could see approx., how long the clay plug is ... I assume that estes has some degree of quality control so the clay plugs should be more or less about the same length from one motor to another .
I would then use a hand drill and slowly drill a hole down the middle of this clay cap until I reached the BP charge....Now knowing the actual length of the clay plug for this specific motor, I would then use a dremel to grind out the remainder of the clay plug....
as far as NAR rules and all that: NAR rules only apply when you are on NAR-Time...if you off by yourself, you are on "Kurt-Time"... On Kurt-Time, Kurt can do whatever Kurt wants to .... now of course there is the nagging question of whether or not you live in a NFPA state, blah,blah,blah....but unless you run down and inform on yourself to the state fire marshall that you are altering model rocket motors, I doubt he/they will ever know... much less cite you for it....
so much for self-regulation..... don't ask and don't tell...
shockie B)

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Splitting down the length!??? Dremeling the plug??? aargh, no way!!!
At most if I wanted to see how deep the clay is, I'd peel the casing off the grain.
The clay is relatively soft. Just use a sharpened wood dowel to break up the clay. A dremel is overkill, and is a potential spark/heat source.
Roy nar12605

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I'd like to see a video of the "splitting it down the length and dremeling the plug", but why does it seem the video camera might be damaged sometime during the process? I sure wouldn't be anywhere in the area when the splitting/dremeliing was occurring!

own
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Roy Green wrote:

Hi,
Yeah I know against the rules and all that. I actually was considering using a twist drill and turning it slowing with my hand to scrape out the clay. I didn't know it was a clay plug. No way in heck do I feel invincible and would never split a motor in two. Again just curious and wonder if anyone knew how thick the plug was. Don't know why that stopped making the E9-0.
Kurt Savegnago
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There's a very good explanation.... The E9 thrust profile is VERY gentle, great for lightweight and/or long stable rockets, but it's lousy for use as a booster stage, when the object is to get the stack up to speed quickly (for stability reasons). If your first stage is slow off the pad, it's likely to arc over to a substantial degree; by time the second stage ignites your rocket may be well off a vertical flight profile.
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Vince wrote:

O.K.,
Thanks. My Quest Zenith II is pretty lightweight actually and that is probably why I get some cool out of sight flights with the D12/C6 combo. I did a second flight yesterday and a month ago, when I flew it, I didn't appreciate the staging. Yesterday I thought I had a staging failure but wham, the sustainer lite off.
Kurt
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The certified it, but never actually released or sold them. For some reason it just didn't work. Don't know if it was the too low initial thrust problem, or they didn't stage, or they behaved like the old E15s :-)
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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Did they ever say "they just didn't work"? Or did they just decide not to sell them since the average American consumer would stupidly attempt to use them as a booster motor for a model that weighed too much for an E9-0 to lift safely?
There *were* reports that folks could not get the C11-0 to ignite upper stages. I have had 100% success with them. Of course, I tape my multi-stage motors end to end using cellophane tape.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsassZshreadvector
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shreadvector wrote:

I've also never had a problem with the C11-0 (and also always tape them -- though eons ago I had one of those Centuri pass-port staging models that didn't need it).
David Erbas-White
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I wish that used to be the case :)

But if your "TRA collegues" tell . . . .

Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Geez, guys, grab a sharp pocket knife and carve away at the plug. This isn't a big freaken deal. NAR no-no for sanctioned events but hey, this is no more dangerous that assembling your own AT reload. Be gentle, and you won't have aq problem. No power tools though.
--
R. J. Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
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The clay plug is usually no thicker than 3/16" and can easily be scraped out with a dowel, pick, screwdriver or knife. The propellant grain itself is as hard as concrete, and you will know when you've reached it. It is not easily damaged (unless you really whack at it). Don't even think of using power tools. The friction produced will heat up the grain.
That said, you should just go buy some real E9-0's and save yourself the trouble and possible danger.
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One more time: there is no "real" E9-0. Probably for a very good reson.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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Actually, good point now that you mention it. Silly me.
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Brian McDermott wrote:

I would buy them but I'm afraid they aren't made anymore.
Kurt
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I dont know about, "unplugging" the motor, but be careful where you fly it. modifying a motor is against NAR Rules and no RSO worth his salt would let you use it. However at a non sanctioned launch it doesnt matter;)

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Why not just CHAD-stage a D12-0 to the first stage's D12-0?
Safe, reliable, no violations of any safety codes, fully approved of by all major religious denominations, and wholesome as mother's milk.
p.s. ignore shockie, anyone who would recommend using a dremel on a live motor to grind out a clay plug (which is crumbly and can be picked out easily with a wood dowel anyway) doesn't have all his marbles.
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p.s. I forgot to add - if you CHAD-stage to add a third stage, make sure the resultant rearward CG shift doesn't make the rocket unstable; add nose weight as necessary to ensure that it is.
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This should be in the FAQ.

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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