E9-0

I haven't built the Quest Zenith but if the masses are correct, the speeds are good, and the trajectory is still going "up" e3ven with breezes, try using an E9-4 for the booster?
Years ago, I cloned an Estes Delta Clipper and staged it with a D12-3 in the booster and an F101-15 in the sustainer (thermalite). Still got the booster in the garage--the sustainer went out of sight the moment the F101 lit and is still out of sight.
You probably ought to sim it out a bunch first.
Andy

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Aside from this being a violation of the NAR/TRA et all safety code, and probably a violation of most state fire regs, there may be other problems.
I'm pretty sure I have an E9-0 in my collection. Or maybe it's the E15-0 from the first attempt at BP E motors. At any rate, they never sold them because they had problems staging. Not sure why this would be the case, but you may need to do a lot of testing to find out why this doesn't work as we expect.
How about using an Aerotech E15 and a timer to fire the second stage?

http://www.xavien.com/ has some G-activated timers that will fire an Estes igniter. Use an E9-P and one of those to do the staging. You then get to pick your second stage ignition time to optimize the altitude.
Kurt wrote:
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:-)
And you transform a cheap rocket in a 40$ one... then you will probably find that shooting it to extreme altitude is not a good idea. And that solves the problem: buy the G-activated timer, put it in the rocket, then put the whole on a shelf saying "I could fly it to ... feet, but...".
:-)
http://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/will /

You put the timer in the booster, not in the sustainer, use parachute recovery in the booster, and you can fly the sustainer as high as you want to. It costs more (I used a $43 Perfectflite Minitimer 3, lights Estes igniters reliably using a 9V NiCad), but if the idea is to save money, stay home and save money, don't fly rockets. Did I get $43 worth of fun out of this? Hell, yes.
michel wrote:
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Good point...nothing ventured, nothing lost...or gained for that matter! {:>]

Is the E9 still an option for the booster with the timer and the 9v nicad?
http://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/will /
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michel wrote:
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    You can expect the timer, small mounting, and an appropriate battery to weigh around 60 grams (2.1 ounces). A C6-7 (for the upper stage) weighs 24 grams (.85 ounces). An E9 weighs about 65 grams (2.3 ounces). That's about 5.5 ounces, or a little over 1/3 of a pound (149 grams). That only gives you about 30 or 40 grams to work with for the rockets and their recovery systems, assuming a strict 5:1 average thrust-to-weight ratio. There's a little safety margin in that the E9 has a 19.47 Newton thrust spike in the first roughly 1/4 second.
    I've flown the whole setup successfully with D12s, and with a wide safety margin on an E28. I think the E9 sounds kinda borderline for this setup - I wouldn't do it in any significant wind. But I don't have a lot of experience with E9 motors, with only about 16 launches on 'em. More experienced hands may have a better idea.

Actually,
The statement below is really not an option with a small model like the Zenith II. Got very addicted to completing successful flights in the moderate sized field I fly out of. Have the Xavien electronics bay and want to do a dual deploy USR Banshee with a Perfect Flite MAWD. The sim said with the D12-0 and C6-7 combo 1925' for the Zenith. I used my field elevation, temperature and my best estimation of the winds with my Kestrel anemometer. We all know winds aloft could be different but I had the ideal winds from the southwest for the geometry of the field I use ie. municipal driving range. At 0700 Sunday morning, not many golf guys out and they get a kick out of seeing the models fly. Had two watching Sunday although they were more interested in talking to one another than hitting balls. Had to do a roughly -12.5 declination of the launch rod to compensate for wind An E9-0 (if it was available:)) would put the model up to 2629' with the C6-7. Am just reporting what the sim says. We all know in the real world the actual flight would be different by several percentage points. The model still would have landed in my field. Oh I have a 10kg scale I can weigh my models on so I use my real weight and CG. None of the manufacturers like to report weight including paint!! Did my Loc Aura on a G80-10 the same day. Rocksim gave an estimate of 3800 to 4000'. I don't remember the estimate of the rod angle. Saw the 12' streamer deploy and it started drifting big time. I rapidly assumed correctly it tore off. Heard the model rattling but I couldn't see it. My ears said it was onfield. Launched a couple for models up including the Zenith and packed up to go. Drove over the the golf guys to clear walking out and recovering the Zenith which was far from the launch pad but withing sight. A couple of hundred feet away was the Aura, none the worse for wear with a 12 inch remnant of the 12' streamer left. It would have been a DNF at a meet as it spit the engine too. Learned good lesson here. Run the sim before blasting the model with powerful engines. I did the Aura on the spur of the moment and the sim later showed me it was doing close to 70mph when it ejected. A G80-13 SU, if one was available, or another motor would have been a better choice. Also have to be better with picking streamer size. They can drift a quite a distance if long. The opposite advantage is older eyes can fixate on a higher altitude with a long silverize mylar streamer flapping in the breeze along with sound to help guide the eyes where to look.
Kurt Savegnago michel wrote:
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Kurt wrote:
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I use about 12' of metallized mylar about 6" wide but attach it around the shock cord at the halfway point--dual 6' streamers, about a 15' kevlar shock cord and may even wrap the streamer. I think I may even wrap the rolled up streamer with a few turns of shock cord so that (hopefully) it'll unroll after all the shock cords out and as the model slows down as aerodynamic fluff. Not sure if it actually deploys as intended by my recovery record for the G80's & G125's in squatty Black Brant designs has been pretty good. Always leaving parts of streamer up on each flight.
Just trading notes...
Andy

Kurt wrote:
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I've never built a Zenith, so I'm not sure of the BT size, but it sounds like the best solution for BP altitude is an E motor in the sustainer, not the booster.
I'm guessing a 24mm would fit in the BT since it has a D booster (BT-50?).
A D12-0/E9-8 launch outta put it out of sight for a bit, even if it needed a little nose weight.