Two milestones

Hi,
Just started back into this great hobby last August and am proud to anounce two milestones. Though I haven't made it to a place where I can
certify, (and I am working on a level 1 to 2 rocket. Just have to do the TTW fins, seal, sand, primer paint etc.:) ) I was able to achieve Mach 1 with an Apogee Aspire on April 9th at the Peoria Area Rocketry Society launch in Metamora, Illinois. I put all of the numbers as accurately as possible into Rocksim 7.x and got 832mph. I think this is quite a decent margin. I did lose the model at the time though. Tim Lehr from Wildman Rocketry announced, "You did use an SU motor on that one Kurt, didn't you?" Yes I did an SU G80-10.
Man it blasted off of the close pad so fast that nobody, including myself could track it. Well, I thought it went up so high and my workmanship was so good that God decided to keep it. Little did I know that it is good to go to a launch weekend and launch on the first day. A fellow found it 3/4 to a mile away on the SECOND day of the launch. I couldn't make it back for the second day. Note that I did launch a bunch of other mid-power models off on April 9th and got them back so I was actually quite satisfied.
That Saturday night, I emailed the president of the club that I had a great time at the launch, enjoyed watching about 6 greater than K engine launches (some of which hit 16,500 feet!) and I just slightly lamented that I lost the Aspire and would build a new one. Told him of the color pattern and the fact that Rocksim predicted Mach 1. I get an email on tuesday the 12th of April that a fellow modeler returned a model that matched the description of the one I lost!!! Is that kewl or what!!
Went to a launch in May where the weather was very cold and had the model returned to me.
Well today, June 26th, I stuck an F10-8 Medalist engine into the same model and BLASTED it over a mile high! I thought I was going to lose it so I stuck a return address label on it, taped it down, and fired it off. My goodness, that almost 8 second burn is incredible. It kept going, and going, and going and going. The winds were 5 to 9 MPG on my Kestrel wingmeter and I had the danged launch pad pointed a bit too far to the south. Next time, I have to stand back and look and see which way the ground is pitched before I launch!
Oh my gosh. It disappeared and a female spectator asked, "Is that a bottle rocket?" I just kept looking skyward and ignored her as I was very close to muttering a bunch of obscenities at her. After all the work I put into that thing and all of the trouble getting it back to me...............
Just when I was about to turn away and go about launching another model, I begin to hear, what I think is the flap of a mylar streamer. I look up and could not see the thing for the longest time. Eventually, I was able to fixate on the Aspire with a beautifully deployed 10 foot silver mylar streamer coming down a looooooonnnnnnggggg way away. I mentally marked the spot and went out to the area, which was in tall grass. I couldn't find the model.
Well I launched a bunch of other models, including a hacked Estes Mean Machine with oversized fins that I painted to look like an American flag on an F21-6. That model went up great to over 1000' and I got her back. She is a story herself of how I built her. Neat flight and Rocksim saved the day as far as my choice of engine for her.
Dumped off my 11 year old son who was getting overheated, watered up myself and went back to the field. I forgot to mention that my launch site is a 2 minutes drive from my house. See why I got back into the hobby? :)
Spent 20 minutes searching in the tall grass and I FOUND THE ASPIRE!!!! Boy, it did land quite a distance away and if I would have fired it a couple of degrees further to the north, it would have have landed onfield. I figured the rocket body would land deeper in the grass and the silver mylar streamer would lay on top of the grass. I was absolutely right and found the model as soon as I walked behind where it came down and scanned to see the silver mylar streamer glinting in the sunlight.
So, I am happy to report a Mach one speed and over a mile high flight on stuff that one doesn't have to be "certified" to do. Don't get me wrong. I am going to go for higher power but am absolutely amazed at what I was able to achieve with the tools available to me. Didn't have to be "certified" to do it.:)
Besides certifying I want to do a G power or lower dual deployment so I can launch at my local field. I just think it looks neat.
Kurt Savegnago
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snip
COOL!
Randy http://vernarockets.com /
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Kurt wrote:

Go for it! Not only is it cool, but get some practise and do it on your L1 and certify 'in style' :) With a G (or even F) motor, as I'm sure you know, you can get high enough that two-stage recovery and radio trackers become neccessary!
Niall
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snipped-for-privacy@oswald.ndo.co.uk wrote:

In that regard, am trying to learn the rules of amateur radio,including Morse code and would like to launch an automated HF transmitter and see if any morse code friends could pick it up. That is on the back burner as I would like to get the dual deploy thing going. Have a USR Banshee and an electronics section designed by Xavien I'd like to use. Just need to get an FOI card just to make the gunpowder possession legal and I'll be all set for the ejection charges.
Kurt Savegnago
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Kurt wrote:

Man...wish I could have been there to experience all the joy of the adventures and misadventures. Tell us what you think of the Apogee Aspire. I have been eyeballing that kit a lot, lately.
--

Greg Heilers
Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.1 (2.6.10)
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Greg Heilers wrote:

The Aspire reminds me of a javelin with vestigial fins. I have another one on the shelf to build and I will probably build it but not to do crazy stuff anymore.
If I recall correctly, I didn't like the motor adapter supplied by Apogee and made my own. I set my Aspire to be able to take a G80-10 but then be able to use an adapter so I could fire it on D12-5's. In actuality, one could use a C6 probably 3 or 5 and get a good launch on it. It is such a lightweight model. The only problem would be constructing a 29 to 18mm adapter. :)
I saw in the advertisments where the model could go over a mile high and Mach 1 and built it for a one time Mach 1 launch. I eventually got it back and then had to do the mile high thing on the F10-8. :) Am now going to retire the model to the motor adapter for more sedate D12-5 flights. I think it deserves it.
Kurt Savegnago
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I'm not a fan of using the same bird for L1 and L2. The reason being, is once you're L1, there can be a lot to be learned. You might have a L1 bird that can handle a big I and fly it on a small J, but that doesn't indicate a great deal of skill. There's a bunch to be learned (IMHO) between L1 and L2, as L1 is H-I and L2 is J-L. And Trust me.. K-L is a bit different than a small J!
Those that try to use the same bird for L1 and L2, to me, are open to questioning for both certs. It was either way overbuilt it for L1 or way underbuilt it for L2. Neither is good in my eyes...
View the certs as a journey and not a merit badge, and enjoy the journey... Fly a few different L1 birds, and see what works. Then plan your L2. You'll enjoy the journey!

Aspire.
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AZ Woody wrote:

It indicates a lot more skill than doing L1 cert on a saucer if you ask me. A big I/small J can easily push you into the transonic region and to the sort of altitudes where electronic 2-stage recovery is mandatory. I see skill there...

You could build a big fat rocket (say 7.5") that won't go especially high and fly it on a K for L2, using motor ejection. Other than the size, it would be built much like an Estes rocket. The required clue as compared to a simple H/I/small J (i.e. 38mm) rocket is not much different.

My L1 rocket could quite happily be my L2 rocket. It's got a 38mm MMT that will take any 38mm solid motor up to a J570, and 2-stage (aka dual-deploy) recovery. It'll do 1500ft on a Pro38 H motor, which is fairly reasonable. A 3" BSD Thor will do about the same.
I actually did my L1 on a hybrid motor, success on the third attempt. Going straight in at the deep end perhaps but flying a simple motor-ejection rocket just didn't appeal. Seeing everything work on my cert flight was even more satisfying, even on the third attempt. FWIW another club member took 3 attempts to cert on a simple 3FNC motor-ejection rocket.
There's no reason not to embrace complexity from the outset. I've learned a lot more than I would with a simple rocket. Sure, the first two flights had slight issues (both simple parachute issues that could have happened on any rocket), but the next three were great.

Why not both? At the end of the day, yes all that matters is the RSO signing off the cert papers, but if you choose, you can learn even more doing it 'the hard way'.

Or go straight in at the deep end, I recommend it highly.
Niall
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snipped-for-privacy@oswald.ndo.co.uk says...

Build a stout Bruiser with a 75mm mount, then you can use it for L1, 2 AND 3.
--
Tweak

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I think it could be done. Build a 4" rocket, possibly from carbon fibre tubing (to get the best strength/weight ratio), fly it on an I600 for L1, pretty much anything for L2 (K1100 :) ) and an M1297 for L3.
I've seen Art Upton's M520 boostercam video, IIRC that rocket was just plain cardboard and plywood. I'm sure it could be done, from a technical standpoint anyhow. The end result would be a fairly low L1 flight and a very high L3 flight.
Niall
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way cool kurt...
yes there are a variety of missions a person can perform at the FG level...
shockie B)

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Cool!!! Sounds like somebody's been having fun :-) How high do you think it went?
Cheers, Clint
(Now worried about launching my Estes Patriot on G's)
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CJC wrote:

The Aspire is a lightweight model that weighs 125gms.with the supplied streamer and painted no less. I laminated the fins with 3/4oz. fiberglass matte and resin. That was overkill and I suspect the model would have survived Mach with a paper lamination of the fins. With the impregnated fiberglass, I was able to sand the fins to near razor sharp. Any old ex F-104 driver would tell you that is how they like their fins to be. I ran the numbers at a variety of launch rod angles and as far as I can tell, I probably hit 4000' on the Mach 1 run. It actually came out 3998' on Rocksim. Now if someone would come up with a launch pad you could perfectly level and set the angles on we could really get accurate! Don't be afraid of the G. The motor is overkill for the Aspire and is a sure thing to stick it out of sight and possibly never to see again. I was lucky. If the weight is right with your model things should go fine. Try to find someone with an accurate scale to measure it and a computer with a simulator to run it through some flights.
I expected the Aspire to go OOS with the Apogee F10-8 as it is a lower thrust, long firing motor at 7.8 seconds thrust duration. The maximum lift-off weight according to Apogee is 170gms.
Kurt Savegnago
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I launched a LOC Lil, Nuke on Saturday with a 29mm G240-10 from USR. That was one of the fastest launches I've seen. It was in fact, much faster than a MachBuster. Recovery was by streamer {plastic grocery bag..don't ask} later, I launcher a Vaughn Brothers Extream 29 on a G008 from USR. Ignition was very very slow but the rocket went straight up for over 8 seconds of burn and had not yet nosed over when the deployment charge fired. We almost lost it but did manage to recover it almost a mile from the launch site. That was at El Mirage dry lake in the Mojave. This is fun stuff isn't it!
--
R. J. Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
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wrote:

The USR motors sound cool. Where can I buy some?
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ROTFL!
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
People who exercise their embryonic freedom day after day, little by little, expand that freedom. People who do not will find that it withers until they are literally "being lived." They are acting out scripts written by parents, associates, and society. --Stephen R. Covey
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Reece Talley wrote:

Reece, do you think it is wise, as a school teacher, to associate with a known felon and purchase illegally manufactured explosives from same.
Wouldn't that be grounds to strip You of Your teaching credentials, maybe even jail time?
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OUCH! shockie B)

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Dave Grayvis wrote:

I can see this turning into a slippery slope. In the bad old days it used to be, "who flew the G?" Changing it to "who flew Jerry's G?" -- or -- "Who flew with Jerry?" doesn't strike me as progress.
Yeah, Jerry's a lying scuzball, but if someone wants to fly some of his motors at a private launch, I think that's their business.
BTW, I have an ancient USR K500 I'm hoping to fly one of these days, maybe later this summer.
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So you are basicly admitting to the CRIME both you and "Dave Grayvis" has alleged.
Gees!
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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